New BayCruiser 23

[Rod Shiers]

Dear All

I've recently ordered my first trailer sailor, which I'm planning to keep near my home in the Peak District - it's in 'landlocked Derbyshire' but very central for trailing anywhere. I'm planning to explore the Estuaries and rivers I've never had time to sail in the past. I've been cruising for over 30 years both in England and the Med. Would any other 23 owners have any tips as to what equipment they have which they don't use, or wish they had bought first time round? Also the choice of potential tow vehicles seems enormous - again any experiences would be useful.

Many thanks

Rod Shiers

[markbatey]

I'd be interested in the same thoughts - I'm about to pick up BC23 Golightly which Matt is selling to me. She'll be renamed though as he wants to keep the name, current favourite is Juno.

Pretty sure I'll be adding a fixed VHF, there's already a chartplotter and depth sounder. Not sure about an autotiller, which I love on my previous boat. I think I'll wait and see if I can manage without, but that depends on how stable she turns out to be with a tiller tamer device.

Camping stove and portapotti are going in as well.

What else will I need?

Mark

[Graham W]

Way back in the previous century, I bought a secondhand 20' gaff-rigged Norfolk Gypsy that came with a diesel inboard and all sorts of electronics already installed.  The Autohelm tiller pilot that interfaced with the wind instruments was particularly helpful when solo, which was nearly all the time.  With the engine on slow ahead, I could set the tiller pilot to steer directly into the wind and it would reliably stay there, regardless of changes in wind direction.  Very useful when reefing, raising and dropping sail. 

In the unlikely event of winning the lottery, living on the coast and therefore buying a BC23 (no mizzen), I think I would have the same electronics again.  Probably with two lithium batteries instead of one lead one.

[Andy Dingle]

Welcome to this forum Rod and well done, Mark as well, for getting probably the best trailer sailor available anywhere!

I've had my BC23 now for over three years and have sailed quite extensively in all sort of conditions.
I expect there are quite a few potential new BC23 owners out there after talking to Matt at the SBS, so here are my observations ..  Another Dingle stitherum..

Deck.
Ground tackle is essential so get the bow roller, I'd like some kind of 'protection' to stop the anchor knocking against the bow gel coat when lifting it. I use a 6 kg delta, with 30m of warp and 6m of chain. Works well and it all fits in the anchor lockers. The samson post is fine, but could be a bit higher and with cleats fitted to it.
Additional midships cleats are invaluable, recommend them. The cleats are fitted 'lower' than the gun'ls so fairleads are essential, I now have four pairs of fairleads fitted down the boat, particularly level with the samson post.
There is still no where to hang fenders!
A sprayhood is to me, essential. Don't skimp on that. I'm fitting some (battery operated) bright LED's inside the sprayhood for a bit of light when coming back to the boat after a 'run ashore' at night.
I've also had that faux teak plastic stuff (permateak?) fitted all round the cockpit, it works and looks really nice. I've got cockpit tidy bags on each side of the companionway - though you can easily retro fit them and probably cheaper than the yard. A winch handle pocket too on the stbd side. (Get a spare winch handle!)
I ordered harness secure points in the cockpit and just forward of the fore glass hatch in case I have to forward.
Cockpit tent would be desirable I think, but I don't have one as yet.
Your deck fittings will really need some thought, I have spinlock clutches and PXR's for the genoa sheets - good, but I find when under a lot of tension they are difficult to release. Tho' I think Matt has changed these now.
Some kind of tiller tamer is desireable - I have an autopilot (see Graham's post above, that is exactly what i do with mine) but I also fitted a couple of small pad eyes on the aft of the rail on each locker to take a rope/shock cord to the tiller for quickly lashing it off.
I'd ask Matt to fit a hole through the aft end of the stbd locker for the o/b fuel pipe - the tank is stowed in the locker. Ventilation grill would be a good idea too.
The deck aft end of the cocpit is perfect for solar panels and I have two 20w panels fitted there.
The traveller 'behind' you isn't the best, but is probably the only place it can be. I'm still experimenting with the car to get it as I like..
A jackstaff is a good idea - I recently realised that I don't have anywhere to fly a flag - racing flags, courtesy etc.
I had a canvas cockpit cover made up (I'm in a marina) it protects the cockpit from weather but more importantly it hides the outboard from inquisitive ne'er do wells.

Woodwork.
If I was ordering new again, I'd just have plain teak woodwork for gun'ls, rubbing strakes and coachroof handles and either leave it alone entirely or treat with a light oil. The current cetol stuff hasn't really worked (is rubbish really!) and I now have a winter job to bring it back to it's original beauty this year.

Rigging.
I have the Aero Luff Spar system on my genoa - get it, if you can! It's a must!
I'm still not entirely convinced with the dynema shrouds and lanyard thing - others may disagree. I may change them yet to stainless and turnbuckles, having said that they do work - so personal choice there.
Think carefully about reefing. I ordered single line, which I have now changed to a very basic but simple slab system, all with lines back to the cockpit. When you get your boat - I would urge you to practice reefing and experiment until you get it just right. I have found she will sail beautifully reefed right down, so don't be shy to reduce sail - the aeroluff spar works well to reef the genoa too.
Lazy jacks and a sail bag are just brilliant, makes life so much easier.
Not sure if spreaders on the mast are standard now, if not, I'd have them.
Topping lift - have one! You can easily fit it after delivery, but make sure you have the capacity in your deck tidy's - I had them doubled up port and stbd to take extra string, eg I have a 'spare' halyard up to the hounds, for an asymmetric etc.

Below.
I have a 'panel' fitted below the companionway for electric stuff - have a look at the Swallow Yachts website, the 360 view of the BC23 is actually my boat (without my cushions). It works well and is handy.
The cushions I acquired separately - mine are five ins thick, softer and cheaper than the standard. Well worth it. I have extra wide hatch covers under the two side berths for storage. I actually use those 5 litre bottles of water from tesco etc, as my main water supply. Three or four each side are stored under the side bunks, alongside other essential beverages and I've dispensed with the standard flexi water tank.
Matt made me some clever gimbals for the standard flat cooker, cheap and easy, I can safely boil a kettle in any kind of sea - ask Matt or I can send pics. For heating I use a 'camping' gas heater that takes the same gas cartridges as the cooker, quick and simple warmth. Millets I think for about 15 quid. The same for shore power, a camping/tent elec hook up, has three 13amp sockets and an rcd to plug into marina mains for about £20. Carbon monoxide alarm of course.
I have two 40 aph batteries in the forepeak, under the bed alongside the forward water tank viewing hatch. (NB Graham, I note what you say about Lithium, I'll look into that, good idea).
Portapotti 'facilities' with a flexi bucket that lives in the outboard well for general use! No one is ever allowed to stand on the side decks at sea.

Electrics.
A fixed vhf is pretty well essential. In my experience it is mandatory to continually monitor respective VTS's as well as the (advisable) Ch 16. I have one which has gps/ais/dsc all built in and I use it a lot in addition to a handheld. I also have a remote mic to my main vhf set in the cockpit (if you want further on this set up, let me know).
Depth clock of some kind is also pretty essential of course. Note the BC23 has a 'cored' hull so the 'shoot through' transducers don't work. You'll need a hole drilled through your hull for the transducer! As standard I think this is under the sink, so Matt will need the transducer as he builds the boat.
Having said that, I've just fitted a 'secondary' Garmin striker depth, using the supplied transom transducer that I fitted on a bracket under the boat from the outboard mount, in the outboard well - works great!
A mast head aerial will be required so get Matt to fit that too (with mast head nav lights, wind systems etc) as cables will need to be moused thro' the mast and terminals fitted to the coach roof. (I have the NASA wireless wind system, works well so far).
Solar panels etc too will need to be fitted as the boat is built as the cables will need to be 'built in' through bulkheads and buoyancy tanks.
Navigation aids are personal choice. I use a chart plotter (but mostly a Yeoman plotter with paper charts) but I sailed a friends yacht recently and he had one of those tablet things with charts on it - very impressive! Think I'll get one, the Visit My Harbour set up seems good and cheap.
I also have an epirb strapped to my life jacket.
I've just built a panel that holds all the external electrical bits that's mounted on one of those flat tv screen adjustable mounting brackets so it can easily swing out of the saloon and into the cockpit for use at sea.
Electric pump for the water ballast is very useful, mine is a bit slow, but happily slurps away until the tanks are empty.

Trailer/vehicle.
I'd be most surprised if your trailer was set up properly at first. Most aren't! So expect some hassle moving rollers etc until you can launch and recover as easily (easier!) than most dinghies. She really is no problem on the slip way when you are set up properly. A two speed (or electric?) winch is useful, but do get a spare winch handle (they are detachable), if you lose it (which I did!) You are really in the mire!
I guestimate a towing weight of about 1500 - 1600 kg, maybe a bit more, so most biggish cars will be no problem. Four wheel drive is always handy of course. I use an audi estate alldrive car, which does me for normal daily use and towing the boat.


I'm sure there are loads I've forgotten. And I'm sure other owners have different and better idea's than I do.
I'm in the Lincolnshire Wolds so not that far from you - Equinox is on the water in a marina in Grimsby. If you would like to come over and see her and talk through things and/or go for a sail any time - as is anyone who is interested of course - you're very welcome, just let me know on equinox25 at gmx.com.


Regards

Andy and Equinox


ps 'Stitherum' - Lincolnshire dialect for long dull boring tale!

[Peter Taylor]

Hi Rod,

A few comments from me based on my BC20 experience and following Andy's "stitherum".

Steering: I sail single handed and find an electronic Tiller Pilot almost vital for the purposes Graham mentions. I also have a rope based "tiller tamer" but it can't cope with changes in wind force and the changes in sail set up as you reef in the same way the Tiller Pilot does.

Woodwork: I specified teak for the trim bits and don't regret it. I've left it untreated and use Boracol (as recommended by Hallberg Rassy) on a very infrequent basis to keep any "green stuff" at bay (Seatern is on the water and the woodwork exposed all year). No need for oiling or varnishing the teak. I also used teak panels for the cockpit seats and a teak grating for the cockpit floor which is much less slippery (particularly when frosty) compared to not having it - I assume permateak would also work well and be more "PC".

VHF: a fixed VHF has the advantage of higher power and higher aerial than a handheld. But it must be accessible when the companionway is closed. I use a remote microphone/controller in the cockpit - alternatively a VHF could be fitted in the cockpit - they do that on ribs. If you get one with AIS reception your chartplotter can show the detected vessels - very useful if you sail where there are commercial craft.

Chartplotter: I've tried tablet computers but my eyes can't see them well enough in sunshine. I use a Garmin echomap mounted on a bit of wood that slips into wooden holders - when I tack the boat I usually tack the chartplotter as well! At anchor it transfers to the cabin.

Cooking/heating: if you go for the flat camping stoves do choose one which has a cut-out device if the flame is not lit - the sort that you have to hold the knob for a few seconds when you light the stove. These are slightly more expensive - about £30 rather than £15 but make it much harder to fill the bilge with butane. The Brightspark BS100 is an example (whereas their BS110 is the cheaper, "outdoor only" type without the cutoff). These stoves give off CO.  I would not recommend them for heating inside a boat unless ventilated to the outside through some method. I have a Pan2000 heater which sits on a butane stove with the exhaust gases going up a chimney - it works well but was expensive. A CO alarm is essential but get a digital one which integrates your exposure - it cuts down on false alarms which you might get just by boiling a kettle.

Ballast pump: I have an electric one which both fills and empties the ballast tank - it saves plunging your hand through a ballast tank full of cold water in winter!

Towing: make sure that the car is specified to cope with the possible gross train weight as well as the weight of the trailer+boat.

The equipment I chose for my BC20 is discussed in my "blog"  http://seatern.uk/ where the first year or so (2014) has the most relevant bits.

Peter

[Graham W]

I'm fitting some (battery operated) bright LED's inside the sprayhood for a bit of light when coming back to the boat after a 'run ashore' at night.

The light requirements on my BR20 are fairly modest - I have two of the excellent rechargeable and waterproof LED tent lights shown in the photo below.  They can be attached just about anywhere with their built-in magnets and hooks.  There are various versions available on Amazon but be aware that some are shipped from China.

A USB socket for recharging mobiles, tablets, lights and other such electronics is really useful.

I note what you say about Lithium, I'll look into that, good idea

LiFePO4 batteries are still very expensive compared to Pb but are much smaller, lighter and longer-lived and more of their capacity is usable in each charging cycle.  I wouldn't be without my (single) one - a waterproof Tracer 24Ah https://www.tracerpower.com/lifepo4-12v-24ah-battery-pack.html.

A mast head aerial will be required so get Matt to fit that too (with mast head nav lights, wind systems etc) as cables will need to be moused thro' the mast and terminals fitted to the coach roof.

So that the cables don't clack about inside the mast, make sure that cable ties with big tails are secured to the cable at regular intervals and different angles all the way down - this holds them away from the mast interior's surfaces.

Steering: I sail single handed and find an electronic Tiller Pilot almost vital for the purposes Graham mentions. I also have a rope based "tiller tamer" but it can't cope with changes in wind force and the changes in sail set up as you reef in the same way the Tiller Pilot does.

Like Peter, if I had a BC23 I would have both a tiller pilot and a tiller tamer.  Beating upwind at sea with the tiller tamer locked on, my BR20 can sail for miles unattended, as long as I have the sails fairly well balanced and don't shift about inside the boat too much.  A tiller pilot will do the same but will eat into battery life after a bit.

One more piece of kit that I don't think has been mentioned yet - on a boat as big as a BC23, a boarding ladder is fairly important.

[Rod Shiers]

Dear All,

Thanks very much for the welcome and the tremendously useful information. Andy, thanks for the offer to come over to Grimsby. I may well take you up on that. Regards Rod

[markbatey]

Thanks everyone, really useful stuff. I've got the yard to fit centre cleats before I pick the boat up, I think that's the only extra that I'll need immediately that isn't already on. I liked that semi-fixed mooring springs setup that you have Andy - was that a snap shackle on lines set up on the pontoon?

I'm planning on putting the boat into the Tyne next week for a final few sails before the weather turns really cold, then I'll have the winter to sort out all the other bits and bobs. Including possibly flush mounting a chartplotter - bit scared of cutting massive holes in the boat though!

Cheers

Mark

[Andy Dingle]

Mark..

Yes, my spring on the pontoon finger is very simple and basic, just a rope between the fore and aft cleats (on the finger) with a snap shackle half way. When coming alongside single handed it's very easy to just lean over and grab the rope from the cockpit to control the boat, then I snap it onto the steel thimble thingy on the shroud, where the lanyard is laced. The boat is then under full control fore and aft until you can secure your mooring lines - which I tend to leave on the finger ready.
Get mooring line snubbers .. cheap and very good in preventing wear. The snap shackle stays where it is for a very effective single line spring.

You're a braver man than me, cutting a hole for flush mounted instruments! (Presumably in the bulkhead?).
I always think they are so likely to go wrong and/or be changed etc and you end up with a hoiking great hole where you really least need it. And of course the new bit of kit doesn't fit the hole ...
I've just built a swing out panel for mine..  an earlier idea was the mount I built to slide into the washboard slot.. (did you see that on my boat?).


I'm loosely planning on a trip up in the next few weeks ..  should you be about?

Regards

Andy

[markbatey]

Andy - you're right about the worry about dirty great holes in a fairly new boat, bit worrying. I had one of those swivel tv mounts on a previous campervan and it wouldn't stay in place without tightening it with a screwdriver every time I moved it, not ideal. Anyone know of a swivel mount suitable for a chartplotter with a good friction swivel that stays put?

And if you're coming up to the Tyne do get in touch first - went out yesterday and conditions were great, not sure how long they'll stay that way, but I'm planning on putting the boat in the water for a few weeks anyway.

Mark

[Rob Johnstone]

A note on the weight of a BC23, trailer and all.

I put the fully equipped Vagabond + Terence (the trailer) on a weighbridge at the end of the Round Britain experience. Total weight 1580 Kg.

A bit of a problem given that the axle was rated at 1400 Kg and the tyres at 700 Kg each!

Vagabond was (is?) BC23 number 10. Since then the trailer axle has been upgraded to 1800 Kg.

[Peter Taylor]

Anyone know of a swivel mount suitable for a chartplotter with a good friction swivel that stays put?

I've sailed on a boat where the chart-plotter swung out into the companionway opening on a TV mount and one of the swivel hinge pins had been replaced with a bolt with a wing nut, allowing it to be tightened. That worked, but you couldn't see the chart-plotter if the companionway was closed up!

I like my system on Seatern where the chart plotter is on a plywood mount that slots into teak iPad holders bought from K.J.Howells of Poole thus allowing me to have alternative mounting positions - see photos. More info at http://seatern.uk/2014/06/garmin-echomap-50s/ .

[markbatey]

That ipad holder idea is really neat, I'd not really thought about not being able to use the chartplotter with the washboards in.

[David Hall]

Hi All

Newbie here! I am in the process of finalising my options for a new BC23 and have found this discussion really useful in confirming my thoughts.

Like Mark, my 23 will be based on the Tyne when it arrives in the North East in March 2018. Mark and I are already in touch and arranging a get together. He launches today (1 November), good luck to him and Juno (a.k.a Go Lightly)

I have, as recommended above, chosen the teak option and also the teak coming top (which I saw being fitted onto a 23 being built when I visited the yard last March....very nice!). Matt has recommended the teak be treated with Semco and has supplied me with samples to show its effectiveness. Does anyone else have experience of Semco in use?

As also mentioned, I too am keen to get some sort of cover to provide some protection and security for the cockpit in addition to the sprayhood. So it was either a "flat" mooring cover or getting a full enclosure made up. I was completly staggered at the quotes I obtained for a fitted enclosure (£3k plus, plus) ouch!

Salvation may have come though when I met the guys from Habitent (based in Stockton in the North East which was a good start) at this years Southampton Boat Show. £480. Any thoughts anyone?

David

[Andy Dingle]

David.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Swallow Yachts and especially the Baycruiser 23 - not for nothing that Classic Boat magazine refers to her as a 'future classic'!

In reply to your query re a cover/cockpit tent for your lovely new BC23 - I too was (and still am) in this dilemma - I've kept my boat in numerous places now with varying degrees of security so I had a cockpit cover made up for just a few quid (20 ish I think it was). Picture attached.
Primarily to protect the engine from inquisitive eyes. This pic was taken at a location that was totally open to the general public at all times - hence my concern.

CJ marine do one (nice) for about £1650. Very expensive I agree. I'm tempted - but other things in the offing at the moment has prevented me from rushing in.

Very good choice to have teak - with, or without an oil treatment - but I regret I have no knowledge of 'semco'. I'm sure he won't mind me saying so, but I had a very enjoyable sail with Jonathan Stuart on his lovely BC26 a couple of months ago, he too has gone for the 'plain' teak option and it looks really good - and is likely to remain that way .. I wish that was an option when I ordered my BC23.
I too contacted Habitent. They do not do a purpose designed cockpit tent but they say one of their generic designs may fit ok, I was concerned that the BC23 does not have a pushpit, or even back stays to fix it to..  but they did send me a measurement sheet to see if they could work out how to fit it - I'm not convinced enough to order one as yet..

Hope to get up to the Tyne next year - It will be great sailing with you and Mark. I've (not so!) fond memories of Jarrow coal staithes where I did my dive training in the 80's.. Bit like Grimsby, only posher..!

Andy and Equinox