Flying jib

[Graham W]

Has anyone thought of having a flying jib off the end of their spinnaker pole?  I am not sure how it would be sheeted but it might look something like Teal (a wooden Drascombe) in the picture below.

I read somewhere (I forget where) that cruising cutter rigs often have self tacking staysails (as on the BayRaider), that they go like stink on a broad reach but that the rig presents fewer advantages when beating and running.

[Graham W]

The BayRaider Expedition was on display at the Southampton Boat Show.  Because a large hole in the hull (for the spinnaker pole) and an enclosed cabin do not mix, this arrangement has been replaced by a removable bowsprit, as in the photo below.  It seems to me that this could also be used on an open BayRaider to hoist a flying jib or could even be adapted to accommodate a genoa.

[swatese]

wow,very great,beatifull.

[Andrew Denman]

We have done this on a couple of open BR20's.  One had a the standard self tacking headsail and the other had a permanent forestay and flying luff jib with tracks and cars.  On both rigs, an assymetric was flown from the end of the sprit using a furler.  (and yes that is a Scottish flag assymetric!)

see pics below

Andrew

[Tony]

Has anyone thought of having a flying jib off the end of their spinnaker pole? 

It should work well on a BayRaider.

The photo shows the Deben Lugger prototype. Works well here!

[Graham W]

It should work well on a BayRaider.

The photo shows the Deben Lugger prototype. Works well here!

So, I took the plunge and asked Matt to design me a flying jib to set off the end of my BR20 spinnaker pole, using the same tack and head arrangements as the existing spinnaker.  Initial photos below.  I am not sure that I have achieved the correct angle for the sheets yet.

The idea is that the 20% increase in sail area represented by the 3.4m2 sail will add extra power on a reach but will be easier to handle single-handed than a 13m2 asymmetric. I have managed to fly the latter on my own but in any sort of wind, it is better to have a second pair of hands.

With the addition of bowsprit shrouds (bits of Dyneema string attached to the end of the spinnaker pole and led back to the forward horn cleats to stop the pole bending like a banana), it ought to be possible to fly the sail to windward.  I shall report back on my experiences in due course.

[Peter Cockerton]

Graham

Would love to hear how your flying jib is performing so i can introduce it on my boat if you give it the thumbs up. If you are happy with design can you publish the final config and give me an idea on what it has cost. I like the idea of additional sail area on certain points of sail when the winds are favourable.


Peter

[Graham W]

Peter,

I've just launched, so it may be a while before I report back.

Graham

[Graham W]

It took longer than I expected to use the flying jib, and then only in light airs so far, but it seems to work well from about 60 degrees apparent back to a broad reach.  I'll try it in stronger winds next week.

[Graham W]

In the end, the winds that I used the flying jib in were not that much stronger, only up to F3.  However, it confirms that the sail is a very useful one to have.  It appears to lift the bows and on a beam reach, I was doing 4.5 knots over the ground in 7 knots of apparent wind, although I may have had some help from the tide.  It certainly felt fast for the wind conditions, perhaps adding as much as a knot compared to the three-sail setup.

Most important of all, it is easy to handle solo.  Previously, I needed crew if I was going to fly my asymmetric off the spinnaker pole but the combination of a flying jib and tiller tamer apparatus makes the whole thing child's play, at least in lightish winds.  And because the BR is so easy to sail solo under three sails, the addition of a fourth gives me something to play with in conditions that might otherwise be a bit humdrum.

The sail was made by Hyde Sails to Matt's design, adding 3.4m2 to the existing 17m2 sail area.  Cost was £230 + VAT.  Of all the mods and changes that I have made to Turaco, I think this one is at the top of the list of big ticket items in terms of bang for the buck.  It will be getting a lot of use in Corfu, where morning winds tend to be on the light side before picking up in a fairly predictable manner during the afternoon.

[Tony]

Hi, Graham.

That flying jib looks great!
Will Matt include it on the Options list?
I agree - an ideal sail plan for the Kerkiraiki Thalassa. Had you considered a stiff luff wire and a Wykeham-Martin furler? Make it easy to flash in and out when the afternoon winds are mucking about.
(Hmm. I wonder how well a BC23 rigged as a Gaff Cutter would sell?)


           Do you ever get south as far as Sivota or Parga? We are planning a trip or two to the mainland from Lakka in August so look out for a black lugger flying the Red Ensign. (Call sign "Wabi" Listening on Ch 16.)

(By the way, the Dhiekplous Paxon between Paxos and Ak. Asprokavos is a nasty bit of water for small boats in anything of a swell from the Adriatic or the prevailing NW winds over F4. So don't consider Paxos/Corfu or vice versa by the direct route. We've seen large charter boats get a right pasting. There's a reef stretching 3 miles SE from the cape so the whole area is white water in a NW gale.  The sea shelves from 1200m to under  7m in less than 10nMiles so you can imagine! )
Photos show the difference a few hours can make - and this is a good day!

[Graham W]

Hi Tony,

I tried to keep the cost down by using the existing rigging for the asymmetric.  The use of an independent bobstay, adjustable tack line and bowsprit shrouds means that I can get the luff tight enough for my current lackadaisical cruising purposes.  And the sail is really easy to get up and down.  Of course, I may change my mind when the winter mods season comes along....

I mostly sail along the north coast, where the wind is pretty reliable.  I went south last year (as far as Boukari), quickly lost the wind, got deafened by the engine and was burnt to a crisp.  I think any further voyages in that direction will probably be confined to friends' motor boats but I'll take my VHF along and give you a call if we go that way.

Have a great trip.  After this year's UK weather, I can't wait!

Graham

[Tony]

Me neither !

Only a few weeks to go.............

[John E]

Graham

What are the dimensions of your flying Jib sail ?

I made a Bowsprit last year but the second hand sail I had was too big and I am thinking of trimming it down as an experiment. I have tried scaling the dimensions from several photos (17ft x 12.5ft x5.5ft) but the area is coming out as being 1.65msq but text on Forum suggests 3.4msq




John E
BR 20
Wind Lass

[Graham W]

John,

Very smart bowsprit!

Matt the Yard has the exact sail measurements somewhere on his computer but as a rough estimate, I reckon 3.4 m2 is about right.  My flying jib is approximately the same sail area as my self tacking jib and that is 3.4 m2 or thereabouts.  The flying jib may have a less than horizontal foot but it is cut fuller - see the attached photo which shows, reasonably clearly, the two sails up together.

Andy Dingle had a bigger flying jib made for his BR20 and opened a new thread on it  -  see https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,780.msg4895.html#msg4895.  I have occasionally wondered about getting a new version with a longer luff and foot but the current one will do for the time being.