Who dunnit?

[Graham W]

If my very old Lune Whammel had been swamped, it would have immediately sunk like a stone.  This was one of the downsides of being built like a brick outhouse.  The ballast was fertiliser bags filled with shingle, stored under the cockpit sole. The boat was used for towing excess luggage and supplies (including alcohol rations) on family holidays and was once so overladen that the trailer axle snapped.  Happy days!

[Julian Swindell]

There has been endless discussion over the years about how seaworthy some of the older Drascombes really were. Much has been made of Webb Chiles sailing across the Pacific to Australia in an open wooden Drascombe Lugger in 1979. I was not that impressed by the boat, because when it was swamped by a wave, he couldn't bail it out as the flotation was so poor and the  centreboard slot was below the waterline. I think it stayed afloat primarily because it was made of wood. He spent the rest of that voyage in a 9ft inflatable that he was fortunate to have, whilst the lugger was little more than a barely floating sea anchor tied to it. A seaworthy boat is one that can survive a swamping.

My own Drascombe Dabber had a pitiful amount of polystyrene bits in bags under the  decks. I don't think it would have sunk, but if flooded, it would have been so low in the water that the centreboard slot would again be the Achilles heel. I think these problems have been addressed in newer Drascombes, although I don't know how the centreboard has been dealt with.

[david]

Webb Chiles is at it again! His 6th circumnavigation. I think he is 73 now!!! Wow.

http://my.yb.tl/gannet

each blue dot is 24 hours. Sent at noon gmt each day.

[Graham W]

The official Irish report into the fatal gybe, broach and capsize of a 1996 Drascombe Lugger has now been published here http://www.mcib.ie/download_stream/?id=acc74cc4aa9d33cd

The report does not answer the questions on the Drascombe Forum about whether a lack of mainsail boom (or possibly having a mizzen set) contributed to the accident. It is clearer about what would have made the consequences of the gybe and capsize more survivable.

Have a look at the (Irish?) Drascombe Association's response (at the back of the report) to the recommendation in paragraph 6.1 that some sort of retaining mechanism is retrofitted to old Luggers to prevent the centreboard retracting when the boat turns turtle.  Is there something about older Luggers that would make this unfeasible or undesirable?

They are more enthusiastic about the recommendation in 6.3 that buoyancy is upgraded in pre-RCD boats to comply with Category C standards.  As Jonathan pointed out earlier, not everyone agrees that this is a good idea.

[Michael Rogers]

Apropos 'Durdle Door' (I really must stop dragging this into the conversation at any opportunity), boats turning turtle and centreboards retracting is liable to provoke an episode of PTSD in yours truly. NB - ONLY JOKING. But a ducking and then an upturned hull with nothing to provide righting leverage is more than a bit daunting. I am pleased to report that the mod I made to Cavatina's dagger board (described elsewhere) works a treat.

Michael

[Graham W]

From what I remember of the arguments of Jonathan's erstwhile "prolific contributor", post-RCD additional buoyancy in the Lugger makes it even more difficult to right the boat once it has turtled. Pre-RCD boats were already stable when inverted.  With extra buoyancy, the upturned hull floats higher in the water and the amount of mass that needs to be righted is therefore greater. 

Apparently, voluntary capsize experiments with Drascombes at a Sail Caledonia many years ago inspired Matt to develop his asymmetric capsize buoyancy system.  At least one turtled BR20 owner has successfully deployed this in real world conditions, sailing away unaided from complete inversion in gusty winds in only a few minutes. In fact the whole incident was over so fast that most of us that were there didn't even know that it had happened.  I remember wondering why his crew looked so damp.

If extra buoyancy in your Drascombe makes you even more stable when inverted, and in addition you have no leverage because your centreboard has retracted, then as Michael says, you have virtually no hope of righting your boat.  Although the Irish authorities don't explicitly say so, the Drascombe skipper might have had a better chance of climbing back on the upturned hull if he and his crew had had something substantial like a centreboard to hold on to. 

The report mentions the debate about whether a Drascombe can be successfully righted from inversion without concluding either way.  One sensible person on the Drascombe Forum has suggested that the best solution for Drascombes is more buoyancy allied with a masthead float to prevent turtling.  That won't solve the problem with swamping and the centreboard slot that Julian describes but it would be an improvement.

What's really sobering is that whatever boat you have been tipped out of, you can quickly succumb to hypothermia in water that is 17°C, especially if you are only wearing lightweight summer clothes.  Bala at the moment is just over 10°C and Loch Ness is around 5°C.

[Graham W]

Going back to the more recent Poole Harbour Drascombe swamping, here's a screen grab from the harbour CCTV.  Somewhat surreal but at least it's the right way up!  I think the dark shapes amidships are probably the skipper and Leo the dog.

[Peter Taylor]

  With extra buoyancy, the upturned hull floats higher in the water and the amount of mass that needs to be righted is therefore greater. 
....
What's really sobering is that whatever boat you have been tipped out of, you can quickly succumb to hypothermia in water that is 17°C, especially if you are only wearing lightweight summer clothes.  Bala at the moment is just over 10°C and Loch Ness is around 5°.

(the following is written with my dinghy sailing hat on - and experience from those days!)
Extra buoyancy is invaluable once the boat is back upright - it gives you a possible chance of bailing out despite waves sloshing into the hull; with a self-draining cockpit it allows it to self drain! However while the boat is capsized it has disadvantages: on its side the boat is higher out of the water, it blows down wind faster if you are detached from it, it is harder to get onto the centreboard, and the mast is angled down with much of the sail under water and acting to turtle the boat.

Once turtled, the extra buoyancy makes it harder to get your weight far enough outboard to get the centre of gravity outboard of the centre of buoyancy (see my library article on water ballast).  Even if the centreboard has not retracted, holding on to it and leaning back probably won't work.  And that's if you can actually managed to get on to the buoyant, slippery, inverted hull in the first place.  We used to use a jib sheet thrown over the hull to be able to lean back far enough to get the boat to start to "de-invert".  Of course that doesn't work if you have a continuous sheet.  Many dinghy sailors nowadays appear to fit "righting lines" - a light knotted rope running around the outside of the hull  just under the gunwhale from near the shroud plate, around the stern and forward  to the other shroud plate held in place by bits of split tubing and/or a section of shock cord.  This serves the same purpose as the jib sheet but is more readily available and helps a fast recovery.

With regard to water temperature, at 10°C  or 5°C in Loch Ness, cold shock will kill you much faster than hypothermia - which is a good argument for having some sort of buoyancy aid or flotation clothing (as being discussed elsewhere on the forum) rather than a deflated manual lifejacket  - the former give you time to get your breathing under control before starting to perform a recovery. 

Peter

[Graham W]

The debate about turtling continues on the Drascombe forum - see the new thread "Lugger Buoyancy and Centerplate Safety Recommendations".  I can't provide a link because the DA doesn't allow it, for reasons that are best known to themselves.  See what happens when you follow this link http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk/vbforum/showthread.php?4516-Lugger-Buoyancy-and-Centerplate-Safety-Recommendations

The most sensible suggestion to date on that forum, to fit some sort of masthead buoyancy device to prevent turtling in the first place, appears to have been almost entirely ignored.  I haven't seen any heated responses from Germany recently, which is disappointing as it usually provides good sport.

[Peter Taylor]

Just use...
http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk/vbforum/showthread.php?4516
to view the thread,
Peter

[Graham W]

Peter,

I just tried that and got the same unfriendly message - see below.

[David Hudson]

As sailors of a certain experience, as we all are, should we realy be talking of capsizing a 20 ft boat?

Upwind........jib sheet out'ish
Downwind... Main sheet in'ish
But keep it flat.

Whichever, you have to feel the boat and the sails as one:"balance". On a fetch you will "wizz" past unbalanced boats. KEEP IT FLAT!

And if you keep it flat, you won't capsize. (my connection to the thread).

ps Rustie has been getting a new gum shield fitted for the battle ahead at Mylor.

[david]

Help please. I am confused, not a hard thing to do, I admit!
I see "Fetch" used to describe a heading and am having difficulty figuring out what the heading, or, tack direction is.

From my sailing terms dictionary.

Fetch
    1.  The distance across water which a wind or waves have traveled.
    2.  To reach a mark without tacking.

[David Hudson]

I use the term fetch to describe a very fine reach.

[Peter Taylor]

Peter,
I just tried that and got the same unfriendly message - see below.

Graham, try using a computer... I don't have an ipad but if i try to access it using my iphone I get an error (different to yours  but not showing the thread. Either the iphone does not transmit the whole address or (more likely) the Drascombe web-site has detected that it is a mobile device and is trying to serve mobile formatted pages that don't work properly.

As sailors of a certain experience, as we all are, should we realy be talking of capsizing a 20 ft boat?

"Shit happens!"