Combined Bow Stop and Winch Strap Guide (Newport Show)

Peter Cockerton · 17 Nov 2011, 13:52

Whilst admiring once again the images from the Newport Show showing the bayraider in that idealic setting my attention was drawn to the yellow coned object in front of the trailer winch. On closer examination i see it's a clever little device for keeping the winch strap aligned with the winch drum and performing the bow stop/rest. Not sure how easy it would be to modify my trailer but it looks a handy idea.

Having on one occasion got the strap eaten by the drive gears and having to replace the strap and being nearly caught again with the new strap such a device looks worth further investigation. Has anyone seen this device for sale in the UK or on the internet.

Julian Swindell · 17 Nov 2011, 21:24

I'd like one. I have chewed up my strap in the winch gears everytime I have retreived every boat I have ever had. I don't know why it happens, but the strap always goes off centre.I have to buy a new strap every year.

Graham W · 22 Nov 2011, 20:12

It looks like it may be one of these http://www.iboats.com/Tie-Down-Engineering-Bow-Rollers-And-End-Caps/dm/cart_id.422785602--session_id.463944521--view_id.40436

Stoltz make something similar.

Peter Cockerton · 15 Dec 2011, 16:39

Many thanks Graham for finding these, i have only just spotted your response, will consider now how to install one.

Peter

Guy Rossey · 16 Dec 2011, 08:13

[quote Julian Swindell
'd like one. I have chewed up my strap in the winch gears everytime I have retreived every boat I have ever had. I don't know why it happens, but the strap always goes off centre.I have to buy a new strap every year.

I had the same problem and adapted the system shown on the picture to align the strap. And now it works.

Peter Cockerton · 17 Dec 2011, 18:33

Guy

The winch on the photo is a design I have not seen before mine is just the open drum type with a simple drive gear on one side of the drum mating with a large drive gear fixed to the winch handle. The main problem with mine I believe is the size of the drum and the amount of strap. A larger winch would ensure that the wall of the drum guided the strap even when fully retracted. So two options for me buy a larger winch or put a guide in front of the drum to ensure it rolls on centrally.

From your picture the winch has a type of cassette around it with a window for the strap to enter, I guess the wood guide now ensures yours aligns straight into the window and then to the drum. Congratulations on sorting your problems out.

I'm also experimenting with an electric winch now, to explain I tend to sail most of the time on reservoirs with the luxury of a pontoon. I also use a trailer with electric submersible drives on the trailer wheels which I can control remotely. I submerge the trailer until the boat floats off and then normally spin the boat around using control lines. The interesting bit comes when I recover her; I submerge the trailer until the V bar at the rear of the trailer is just under the water, that way I can use the rollers to ensure the boat aligns on the trailer correctly. So the process is get the trailer at correct depth, guide the boat to the trailer using mooring lines, get the bow on the V cleat off the stern, quickly get off the pontoon, wade into the water attach winch hook, winch the bow on as far a I can without uncleating stern line, uncleat stern and then run back to the winch and fully recover, I also need to submerge the trailer as I fully recover to stop the trailer front lifting up.

To experiment next season I have purchased from EBay (China) a very expensive remote control adapter for the electric winch. The kit consists of two remotes and a control box to wire into the winch. Brand new including batteries for £1.85 plus postage. And it works a treat. So now I just need to work on attaching the winch hook to the bow cleat without getting wet (looking at extended rubbish pickers) and I can do it all from the pontoon. The coned guide which Graham found should guide my strap/wire correctly to the new winch.

Peter

Guy Rossey · 17 Dec 2011, 22:29

Quote "The winch on the photo is a design I have not seen before "
Peter,
some explanations :
I had before also an open version and it worked fine as soon as I had the cable changed for Dyneema. But I really feared that one day while launching the BR someone would have his fingers caught in it - horrible just thinking about it ! - . Thus I changed the winch for the Goliath brand which has a safety cover:

http://www.bigship.com/catalogue/motonautisme-1/accessoires-de-remorque/treuils/treuil-goliath-auto-freine-rer-ts900

This came with a strap which gets sometimes caught in the winch gears and gets damaged as Julian wrote.
Guy

Colin Lawson · 21 May 2012, 13:49

I use the winch on my BayRaider trailer to winch trailer and boat up our drive which has too much of an incline to use with out mechanical assistance. But I also have the problem that the strap gets caught in the gears and yesterday I just about finished off the strap which will need replacing. Why don't people swap the strap for a steel wire? Surely this would go onto the reel much more reliably??

Colin

Peter Cockerton · 21 May 2012, 17:41

Quote from: Colin Lawson on 21 May 2012, 13:49
I use the winch on my BayRaider trailer to winch trailer and boat up our drive which has too much of an incline to use with out mechanical assistance. But I also have the problem that the strap gets caught in the gears and yesterday I just about finished off the strap which will need replacing. Why don't people swap the strap for a steel wire? Surely this would go onto the reel much more reliably??

Colin

In my experience of using wire it occasionally kinks and if not released immediately it remains kinked, on my winch the wire will not rewind evenly even with a spring loaded plate to press against the wire as it's rewound, it does not stay centralised so if it has wound itself to one side the boat will not be pulled central. After one season the wire type i had fitted (supplied with winch) started to corrode especially where it had got kinked.

I have no experience of using Dyneema on winches but i see the RAC use it now so that may be the way forward. I'm not sure how the end is attached to the drum, on my wire winch the wire is trapped in a hole on a stud with an allen key headed bolt so not sure if suitable for dyneema.

Using the winch supplied with the boat now, just keep an eye on the strap and pull it central as i winch, not ideal but it works.

Will spend some time at the end of the season exploring dyneema and some of the suggestions on this thread on the roller guides someone kindly found, but for now it's sailing time.

Peter

Julian Swindell · 22 May 2012, 10:20

One concern with wire rope for winches is that if they do break, and they can, it happens without warning and if the wire is under high load the consequences can be awful. Steel cable with a frayed end lashing around anyone within reach. A webbing strap fails gardually and the worst you can get is a slap with a cloth. Dyneema is used for hauling up gliders and should be excellent, but it is hellish expensive. You could replace your webbing starp many times for the cost of a dyneema cable.

James Bennett · 22 May 2012, 14:29

Guys
Here in Australia everyone uses Dyneema rope for their winches. Wire is terrible to use, easily kinked and is too stiff for a light boat such as a Bay Raider. Webbing frays along its edges and is easily twisted if there is a breeze. I am using a Dyneema with a breaking strength of 1 tonne and this is perfect.
Before I owned a Bay Raider I had a 2 tonne trailerable yacht and we used Dyneema with this as well. I always keep a cloth cover over the winch to stop any possible UV sun damage. Perhaps not such a pressing issue in the UK!

James Bennett
Bay Raider 20 Kailani

Tony · 08 Jun 2012, 17:30

I'm with you, Julian!

The point of using webbing is that, being flat, it is self –laying on the winch drum. You don't get turns building up in one spot, then dropping into a gap and jamming when next you launch. Webbing is also more forgiving of different levels of tension when recovering. It doesn't cut into the first, looser turns and cause a jam when the strain increases later on. The worst it can do is slip a little as you wind on. I've not had any problem with straps getting caught in the winch gears myself. A deeper drum would help, perhaps?
If you are happy with High Tec rope, great! It IS stronger. It's also a deal more expensive! At ten quid a throw I'm quite happy to change my strap and hook whenever it starts looking tatty.
The trouble with S/S wire is I can't tell at all if it's about to fail.
( If you HAVE to use wire do hang a towel over it as you winch in. If it happen to snap under load the towel might cut down the whiplash effect.)

Colin Lawson · 10 Jun 2012, 20:39

Thanks for all the feedback. In the end I bought a new winch with a deeper drum - the strap still needs a little guidance to avoid folding on itself but I no longer have a problem with the strap getting chewed up by the gears.

Colin

Graham W · 10 Apr 2015, 14:16

Quote from: Julian Swindell on 17 Nov 2011, 21:24
I have chewed up my strap in the winch gears everytime I have retreived every boat I have ever had. I don't know why it happens, but the strap always goes off centre.I have to buy a new strap every year.

Reviving an old thread, I was still having trouble ensuring that my winch didn't pull the boat off centre on to the trailer when by myself. However, an advantage of having a Dyneema line on the winch instead of a strap is that the line can be fed through a low friction ring on a strop. This can be fixed dead centre to pull the line downwards slightly and then guide it on to the winch so that the boat stays centred even when only one pair of hands is available. It works a treat! Photo attached.