seeking input from BayCruiser20 owners

[mainecoast]

Planning on talking with Matt about a BayCruiser20.

Curious about owner experiences with them.

Things they'd change.

Things they wish Swallow had done during build.

And, of course, general input/advice!

Thanks much,

Pete

[Julian Swindell]

I love mine! Nothing is perfect, but it hits nearly all the right notes for me. In broad terms, it is a large cabin/small cockpit development of the Bayraider. The Bayraider Expedition is a small cabin/large cockpit development. So think about the type of sailing you will do. I sail solo most of the time, so the small cockpit is perfectly fine. With more than two, the cockpit is quite crowded, although I have sailed with four many times, and occasionally five (very cosy). If you are going to be a large family group, the BRe might be better. The other big difference is that the BC20 is only available in epoxy ply whilst the BRe is only available in GRP. I think epoxy ply is far better. Very light and strong and very easy to repair, which is important for me because I tend to bash into things far too often. There have been long threads on this forum about how to repair gelcoat and match colours. Not a problem with epoxy ply. You repair with epoxy and ply, as needed, and then just touch up the paintwork.
One criticism I would have is that the plywood on the side decks of the cockpit is too thin. It cracked on the starboard side two years ago and I repaired it last winter. It cracked on the port side this year and I am in the middle of repairing that now. I raised this with Matt and he said "but it would make the boat heavier!!!" I think this little bit of extra weight would be worth it. But a lovely boat that I spend most of the summers on. The cabin is amazingly spacious for a 20ft boat.

[Knowlton]

Hi Pete
I took delivery of my Baycruiser20 less than 4 months ago and so I'm still in the honeymoon period - and I love it! Any comments I make will inevitably be based on minimal experience of the boat but I've been out in breezy conditions and spent many happy hours pottering.
Any prospective owner of a BC20 is unusually well served by the published thoughts of owners (Swindell, Levang, Taylor, et al.)
Mine is at least the third example with a partial bulkhead fitted on the port side and you might like to discuss this with Matt N if the idea appeals. I'm glad I opted for it.
Matt suggested that I  choose an Aero Luffspar for the jib, and I like it. It is a neat lightweight system and it works well.
If you are thinking of fitting electrics you might consider a lithium battery which will be in keeping with the lightweight "ethos" of the boat. I fitted a 25 Ah LiFePO4 golf-cart battery (Tracer) which is a fraction of the weight of the lead-acid equivalent (but expensive). With electric power available you might go for an electric pump for filling and emptying the ballast tanks. Matt installed one for me under the companionway and plumbed it into the pipe linking the forward and aft tanks. It works well, emptying the aft tank in about 5 minutes, and then after a few minutes pause a further 3 minutes or so of pumping empties the residue from the forward tank. The current drain is about 15 Amps - so not much more than 2 Ah to empty the tanks.
You've probably made your mind up about engines already, but if the Torqeedo 1003 is a possibility there are some invaluable postings about it on this forum. I chose it partly because I believe that before breakfast every morning one should come up with at least one way of reducing one's carbon footprint. I have installed the battery in the cockpit locker (GPS signal received OK) with a remote throttle, making the engine unit itself very light and easy to manhandle. If this arrangement appeals to you, you might, like me, consider asking Matt to reduce the size of the hole in the bottom of the o/b well and do away with flaps/lamellae. Lifting the engine (without battery or throttle) vertically is easy.
Winches on the coachroof have been discussed in this forum. I'm glad I specified them.
I had misgivings about downsizing from my previous boat to the BC20. I now have no regrets at all that I did so.

Paul

(I would like to add some photos but I'm afraid that I cannot work out how to do so.)

[Knowlton]

Hi Pete

If you are considering fitting electrics to your (planned) BC20 - and even if you aren't - you could not do better than study Peter Taylor's Seatern blog.
My (much simpler) system consists of the following:
- Tracer LiFePO4 25 Ah battery
- Blue Sea 4-way circuit-breaker
- Battery switch
- NASA battery monitor
- Solsum solar panel regulator
- Tacktick depth/wind/compass
- Tacktick hull transmitter and NMEA interface
- 2-way switch for the ballast pump
All of the above fit in a small module installed next to the companionway on the starboard side.
Swallow Yachts located the depth transducer and the pump below the companionway.

Paul

[Graham W]

Hi Paul,

I have that Tracer battery too - a huge improvement on the standard Yuasa lead battery in terms of weight and autonomy but at quite high cost.

A bit off topic but a couple of questions on your other equipment:
1.  Is your Steca Solsum charge controller effective with the Tracer? I have a Genasun, which is good when it works but it doesn't like the wet
2.  Does your NASA battery monitor give you reasonable warning of when you're running out of power?  I've found that unlike a Yuasa that slowly declines, the Tracer pumps out electricity at an almost constant rate and then is suddenly exhausted.

[Peter Taylor]

Hi Pete,
I'm very pleased with "Seatern"... look at my blog  ( www.seatern.org.uk ), in particular the "equipment summary" and "1st year assessment"...

Thoughts extra to what you'll find in the blog...

As Julian Swindle has said, whether it's right for you depends on your type of sailing.  I sail single handed most of the time so the small cockpit is not a problem.  It's fine for two people but more starts being a crowd.  And I use the forepeak as a forward hold rather than somewhere to sleep.  For extended trips one person sleeping on board is no problem; I think two people would manage OK for a weekend or so but for longer trips a BC23 would probably be better.

The wood epoxy build means it's possible to specify build options like the internal bulkhead; and  after it's been delivered it's possible to cut holes (within reason!) and to screw things into it.  The down side is the much longer build time compared to the grp hulls.  You have to be patient to get a BC20!

Paul Knowlton's boat sounds to have some improved features compared to Seatern - the Aero Luffspar and the ballast pump connections for example.  I did try to use a Torqeedo outboard, I really did, but it did not provide the power I needed and am now pleased with my 6hp Tohatsu.  I'm using a 100Ah lead acid battery rather than Lithium but, having discussed with Matt, have offset the 25kg weight by inserting a suitable sized buoyancy bag in the aft ballast tank. So when the tanks are full the battery does not contribute weight to the boat.

I think roller furling for the mizzen is a big improvement - I think Matt should offer it as an option.

...but have a look at the relevant bits of my blog. If you have questions on what's there, or can't find anything you'd like to know,  then please ask me.

[Knowlton]

Hi Graham
Firstly, I have enjoyed and greatly benefitted from your many postings on this forum - many thanks.
I'm afraid I cannot help much with your questions about the Solsum controller and the NASA BM-1 battery monitor. Before installing them on my BC20 I connected a 10-Watt NASA solar panel via the controller and the BM-1 to the partially-discharged Tracer lithium battery on dry land and pointed the panel at the (southern UK) summer sun. After a couple of days all seemed to be well. If I remember correctly the current into the battery varied up to 0.6 Amps indicating that the power of the solar panel was roughly up to spec, and the charge level of the battery went up (according to its in-built 5-LED charge indicator). The battery did not become warm to the touch. My understanding of these things is limited but I was vaguely worried about a fire risk when charging up a lithium battery in a non-standard way. Tracer were non-committal when I sounded them out about using a solar panel to charge the battery and the manual says that one should use only the supplied mains charger. The manual for the NASA BM-1 battery monitor states that it is for use with lead-acid batteries and I have learned to disregard the state-of-charge indicator when using it with a lithium battery. What i want from the BM-1 is a display of the current flowing into or out of the battery. Having installed the battery in a reasonably accessible position on the boat I find its in-built charge indicator convenient and sufficiently informative.
All this is a bit off-topic for Pete and his proposed new BC20. Perhaps there is a thread on lithium batteries that we might move to.

Paul

[Graham W]

Here's the link to the lithium battery thread http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,881.0.html

[mainecoast]

Gents,

My thanks to you all!  What a great set of responses!

Be assured, I have followed Daisy Grace and Seatern's sites from afar!  Like most members of the forum, I'm sure I'm way too into the details of installs and pros/cons than is healthy!  So the pictures, comments, postings of those sites as well as Jim's build have fascinated me.

Scheduled to speak with Matt on an initial talk tomorrow.  Very much looking forward to seeing where it goes. 

My gratitude,

Pete

[David Hudson]

The Tracer lithium battery has its own battery condition monitor.

"Not many people know that". (Sorry Michael).