Port and Starboard - how sacrosanct?

[Michael Rogers]

Here's a subject for 'General Discussion' (which, as far as I'm aware, hasn't featured here before: someone will doubtless put me right if it has), to help wile away the weary weeks before we all start sailing again (yes, alright. I know some have been SAILING away those weary weeks. Well done. It hasn't - so far - been a frostbite sort of winter).

To what extent, if at all, do we/should we protect traditional nautical terminology and language, by using it wholeheartedly and preventing 'left, right, back, front, top, bottom' etc etc from creeping into our written and spoken English around sailing activities? How important, or unimportant, is it to do so? Is it an important heritage which we can help to preserve, or an anachronism we can cheerfully do without?

It's only just occurred to me - is this a 'problem' also among sailors in other countries? Is their heritage as rich as ours?

I know what I think. I wonder what the views of others are?

[Rob Johnstone]

I once was a bit of a stickler for this but think that, as we have mostly lost our nautical heritage we might as well move with the times. There are so many turns of phrase that can be traced back our seafaring heritage (and the people who stayed on the land waiting for their "boat to come in" ) that seem to be sliding out of the current lexicon - "in the offing"  "heaving into view" spring to mind as phrases you don't come across very often these days. It's a pity someone with a nautical bent wasn't involved in the Brexit negotiations, then the Back Stop might have been labelled the Bitter End.

[Michael Rogers]

But, Rob, are we losing our 'nautical heritage' at least partly because we are no longer 'sticklers'? There are probably more people involved in (admittedly recreational) sailing these days than were ever directly involved in things maritime in the days when all those nautically derived expressions ('chockablock', 'fathom', 'groggy' - to add a few more) crept into landlubbers' (sic) language. If we all stickled a bit more (no need to go 'overboard'), we might help to preserve a lot of it. And I personally would like us to stick with nautical terms while we are actually sailing, even if things slip a bit ashore.

One of the many things I like about the Aubrey-Maturin novels is the way the sailors ashore slip effortlessly into butlering, carriage driving etc with great efficiency, while maintaining their nautical lingo (fetching up on the port side of the dining table etc).

Apropos our nautical heritage, I went quite recently to the National Maritime Museum (Greenwich) for the first time in relative ages. I thought it was an ABSOLUTE DISGRACE. If you are a researcher you can use the (hidden) library, which I'm sure is excellent. Otherwise it has become very little more than a destination for primary school children (to run around and not pay attention in). I went straight to the website and discovered there that they do not cater for people to comment on their visits: HUH. (The one really good thing was the catering, which is classy.) End of rant, which I did not see coming when I started.

Rob, I'm sure there's a general embargo on comments about Brexit on the forum, but yours is utterly brilliant and deserves a very much wider audience than it will get here!!! Congratulations and thank you - quite made my day!
Michael R     Trouper 12 'Cavatina,

[Rob Johnstone]

Thanks Michael - I did (briefly) hesitate about Brexit protocols but the idea was too good to resist! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[Peter Taylor]

For Michael - I entirely endorse your comment about the National Maritime Museum (Greenwich)... the one in Falmouth is distinctly better (if anyone going to the Raid hasn't seen it yet!). However, and this is something that is vaguely relevant to this thread, last time I was there I entered a plea for them to display all the boat dimensions in feet as well as in meters. After all, labelling a National 12 dinghy as 3.65m kind of misses the point. A Baycruiser 23 is not 23m long (thank goodness) and an 18 foot skiff is, well, 18 foot...  Boat builders label their boats using feet because, compared to metres,  your money buys more of them. Whether that qualifies as nautical language, I'm not sure!

For Rob - of course, Bitter Ends tend to go overboard if not Made Fast
...oops, dicing with the political, ...me, never!

Peter

[jonno]

Well Michael, I don't think there's a HARD AND FAST answer to this.  Language lives – words and phrases come and go.  But surely, whilst aboard, insisting on appropriate nautical terminology, as you advocate, must help to preserve our rich language.  So yes, be a stickler aboard!  You're a singlehander, aren't you?

John

[Matthew P]

Ahoy Cap'n Michael, avast and heave to!

You are standing into dangerous shoals, abounding with rocks of ignorance and misunderstanding in your crew.  But fear not! There is no need to cut and run, a safe harbour is at hand.  My Landlubbers' Nauti Lexicon is attached to banish confusion and ignorance. 

Matthew
The Good Ship Gladys

P.S Nauti phrase additions welcome

[Michael Rogers]

Jonno and Cap'n Matthew have, deliberately or not, hit on an interesting point which hadn't occurred to me. Yes, I'm usually (not always) singlehanded. So I don't often have a crew whose relative ignorance on nautical terms I can work on and thereby help to preserve this elusive 'heritage'. If I do have crew and opportunity, I point out such things as, for example, 'fine on the port bow' is both more economical of words and more accurate than otherwise trying to explain what those words convey.

At risk of seeming odd, I am willing to divulge that I sing out 'ready about-----'bout ship' and 'jibe-O' when appropriate even when I'm single handed: and I talk to Cavatina quite a lot, especially when she's going particularly well. And I sing a lot - usually opera (including G&S) and Schubert. There, that's me labelled a nutter. But always a very contented one while I'm sailing.

[Rob Johnstone]

Surely, every helmsman (sorry, helmsperson) talks to xyr vessel. After all, the voyage is a partnership.  I draw the line at singing, though.

[Matthew P]

If you talk to yourself you are in good company Michael!

Roger Barnes, revered president of the Dinghy Cruising Association and author of "The Dinghy Cruising  Companion", describes an instructive discussion - almost an argument - between the skipper (himself) and cook (himself) about kitchen* arrangements on his boat Avel Dro.

I lack the music gene so, like Rob, I don't sing, although I have been known to hum a little, in an off-key, off-beat sort of way.

Matthew
BR20 Gladys

*sorry; "galley"

[Ape Ears]

Michael,

As an old Trouper it seems quite logical you should maintain our traditional nautical terminology as a Classical yachtsman  when you are Bizet sailing.

In your Faure's into uncharted Waters you should not stop Haydn aweigh.

Off course you know too much Liszt can cause you to roll over Beethoven.

If you try Chopin and changing your headgear, with the right cap size you can bring the boat Bach up again.

I could go further and recommend a good Schumann for your classical foot problem. His name is Schubert.

Can you un Ravel a final puzzle ? Matthew has given a long list of synonyms.
Can you figure why a fathom is an antonym?

Because both a fathom and an ant have six feet.

I have been swinging the lead and plumbing the depths because of exposure to too much heavy metal for too long in my career as a dentist.

I hope you are Satie sfied with this response for which I can only apologise,
As where there is no (Saint) Saens, there is no filling.

Andrew RN *

*Retired Nearly

[jonno]

i didn't think this thread could get any worse. Evidently I was wrong.

[Michael Rogers]

Andrew (AE), I can't compete, and as you included my two favourite composers I can only say - well done! How long did it take you to concoct that? And I bet you do cryptic crosswords.

jonno, I'm not sure what you mean by 'worse' - ?? However, the high class joking aside, I did hope for some more comments on the original topic... Any offers?

[MarkDarley]

Crikey Andrew, I hadn't realised that I had only had a very slight taste of your wit over those cryptic breakfasts on the Caledonia Raid!
See you in Mylor!

BayRaider 20, "Pippin"

[JOD]

I wasn't aware that there was any movement against nautical terms. As a keen dinghy racer, none of the clubs where I have sailed has used other than 'traditional' (and correct) terminology. Calling out 'right' rather than 'STARBOARD' would be most unwise when approaching a crowded windward mark.