Bay raider 17

[frobisher]

There is a lot of very interesting and valuable information on the forum about most of the Swallow range but I can not see very much about the BR17.
I am looking for an easily handled boat for single handed sailing on the Shannon.I think the size would suit me.The spars on my current gaff cutter are getting too heavy for me .I am completely sold on carbon fibre and self tacking sails.
I approached Matt but he indicated that the BR20 would be a better option .
How have 17 owners found their boat,?Just as stable as the 20.?
I would specify the Bermudan rig .
I appreciate that there is towing advantage but I would like to hear from owners, past and present, their views.
If I have missed  17 discussions on the web perhaps someone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction

[garethrow]

Frobisher,  if you are after a 17' boat for convenience and light weight, have you considered the Swallow Storm 17 as an option / alternative to the BR17? I have owned an S17 for 14 years and can throughily recommend them as being very comfortable boats and lighter than the BR17. Although Swallow don't advertise them any more I believe they still make them to order. I have just sold mine to move up to a BR20 for a variety of reasons, but not because th S17 is a bad boat - far from it. The BR17 has water ballast whilst the S17 doesn't - but is beamier and does not need it.

Regards

Gareth Rowlands
ex Gwennol Teifi S17

[frobisher]

Thank you for the thought garethrow.
I had looked at the Storm17 but the water ballast was a desirable feature.Although I see some have it.
Matt wasn't that keen on building a 17 so I don't know what he would say if I suggested an older design.
The spec I saw showed the BR17 with a wider beam than the Storm but Matt seems to change the designs at regular intervals.
Its not the lightness that I am looking for its the size of the boat to reach on the bits.
I expect that the BR20 would  fit the bill but with the smaller main.The idea of an 8m mast doesn't thrill me.The latest modification to the rudder also appeals.
I also looked at the Boat Metrics sheet which I found most informative.
Sailing yesterday,jammed furler on the end of the bowsprit that I can't reach .That sort of thing I want to get rid off.
Thanks again
frobisher

[Jonathan Stuart]

I've always thought it a shame (for customers and Swallw Yachts) that a GRP BR17 isn't available. Surely it would sell well enough? Sorry, that doesn't help this coversation but I wanted to share that thought!

[Tim S]

Hello Frobisher. I have a BR17, have done for the last 4 years or so, and overall I'm happy with my choice still. I chose it because it seemed to fit my needs; I was after a stable, lightweight boat that was easy to sail and suitable for a few hours day sailing in reasonable weather. I also wanted to be able to tow the boat to different locations so weight and length, ease of rigging and ease of launching and recovery were factors there too. The water ballast was an attraction because it offers enhanced stability and I thought that would be useful if taking out nervous or very young crew members. So that's (some of) the thinking behind my choice, here's how I think it worked out for me:

The good stuff. I reckon the BR17 sails pretty well. It feels stable (even without ballast) and I've never had the feeling of it being a bit 'tippy'. I generally sail with a crew member and though I'm prone to the occasional Laurel and Hardy moment the boat seems very forgiving. With the ballast in the boat feels really solid. I don't generally bother going out if the conditions are a bit lumpy but if I do the ballast helps to smooth the ride and also gives the boat extra weight to push through the waves. The boat weighs just 220Kg (plus the kit and the self-loading cargo) and in light winds goes really well. The light weight also makes it easy to push the boat around on it's trailer, at least on level ground, which can be useful if you do happen to be on your own.

The not-so-good stuff. Not much, really. In choppy conditions the centreboard slot would sometimes spout water. Not handy at the best of times but anyone working around the mast could be subject to a nasty bidet effect and receive a splosh of water exactly where they didn't need one. How we laughed.  I considered using SlotStrip or similar to alleviate the problem but in the end went for the nuclear option and got Matt to make me a cover to fit over the slot which so far has worked well.

General stuff. The BR17 meets my needs for a 'fine weather' day sailer in which I can potter about on the water. I find it easy to sail and responsive. Having said that, I find the boat sails well and still feels secure in rougher weather too, it's just that I'm not out in rough conditions that often. I'm now based at Chichester harbour and was previously based on the Clyde estuary, in both cases sheltered waters (the Clyde has various islands to hide behind) but I don't know how they compare to the Shannon. Usually I sail with a crew of 2 (me plus one other) though it can hold 4 adults comfortably. My boat is gunter rigged (wooden mast, carbon yard) and I find the sails easy enough to handle all round though dropping the main into the cockpit, especially if the boat is rocking about much, takes a bit of practise, as does reefing (or shaking out a reef) but I guess that would be the same for most gunter rigged boats. I use the self-tacking jib which works well enough, leaving the crew plenty of opportunity to wrestle the top off the tuck box and hand out the contents. We have camped overnight on the boat a couple of times using a prototype tent made out of a tarpaulin and that worked out surprisingly well, though if you intend to do much cruising I reckon a BR20 would be much better suited. The engine options for a BR17 are less generous than for a BR20 because of the size of the engine well and the weight of the boat. It more or less comes down to a choice of engines in the 2.5HP range, I started with a 3.5HP Mariner (same physical size as the 2.5HP Mariner), found that wouldn't rotate for reverse so swapped to a 2.5HP Suzuki. The power is sufficient but it does mean a) I don't think there's an option for an external fuel tank and b) no reverse gear so the engine has to be spun around for reverse. I have it in my head that I did read about a BR17 with a Honda 4HP engine so maybe that size engine is feasible.

So that's the gist of my thoughts on my BR17. Obviously I've tweeked a few things on the boat and have others I would like to tweek that I haven't got around to yet but I won't ramble on about those now, I think this post is long enough. I hope all this helps.

Tim

BR17 Seagoon

[frobisher]

Thanks for the input Tim.

Have noted your good points and the not so good.Stability....reefing.
I don't think that I could cope with that sort of reefing with the spar down in the boat.
Matt wasn't that keen to guarantee a delivery date for  a 17 ,no problem with a20.
think I will have to revise my wishes
Frobisher