Swallow Yachts Association on Facebook

[Julian Merson]

I appreciate this is going to be a bit of a 'marmite' post.  Coming to a BC20 after several years with Drascombes, there is a thriving independent Facebook group of Drascombe owners and I just wondered whether there was demand for such a group for Swallows.  Appreciate a page already exists for the builders.

The Drascombe group is generally populated by owners posting pictures of their various trips, queries about aspects of ownership, etc. and I'm rather missing seeing similar posts from the Swallow community.  I'm not suggesting, for a moment, that the Drascombe approach is right - in fact there are all sorts of things that could be improved.  And, returning to marmite, the group has its detractors as well as promotors.

There may be good reasons for the SB Association not having a page of its own for these purposes and apologies for upsetting anyone if this is the case.  At the same time there's nothing to stop anyone out there starting and attempting to grow such a group independently.  So perhaps it might be good for the SB Association to seize the agenda, and create and maintain a page which complemented the excellent stuff going on here, where people could just post lots of anecdotal trivia/pictures to do with their boats. 

[Matthew P]

Thanks Julian for raising this topic and asking for opinions before a "competing" Facebook page unexpectedly appears.

I understand many people are used to navigating Facebook and might find it easier to contribute personal content etc than this forum.  I appreciate the forum takes time and effort from Jonathan to maintain - would it be easier on Facebook?

However, from my point of view I already spend probably too much time on an increasing number of social media sites for business and leisure and would prefer not to be jumping from Facebook to this forum and back to keep up with Swallow Boat community content. 

Also I think it would be hard to avoid duplication, and worse, contradicting content especially if one of the sites is not kept in sync.

I'd prefer to keep Swallow Boat community content in the established and familiar location, even if it's not as easy to use for some as FB.

Matthew
BR20 Gladys       

[Graham W]

For very good personal reasons, I avoid Facebook and closed my account several years ago.  I'm probably not the only one.

[Julian Merson]

Which is all perfectly understandable.  However, there are inherent dangers in remaining distant from social media sites.  Again, if I may use experience over the years with the Drascombe Association, for years they resisted calls for a Facebook group, concerned about all sorts of things not least the potential for such a group to compete with the forum in terms of content.  Then, someone started a FB group independently, the group grew and now visitors to the forum are few and fresh content a rarity.  You could argue that, as it currently exists, it still remains an excellent resource for owners searching back throug posts for answers to current questions.  However, the lack of updated material on the forum is stark, whilst the FB group frequently deals with all sorts of interesting technical questions which remain transitory conversations, with little or no means of maintaining these as a library resource.

Learning from this, the SB Association has an opportunity to set up its own page.  It could manage the conversation on there according to its own rules - a suggestion might be that the page is only for social content, pictures and sailing anecdotes; any post which deals with technical questions or potentially forum-competing material to be transferred/linked to threads on this forum and further contributions to the FB post curtailed.  It requires policing and there would be no need for that to fall on the shoulders of those who already manage the forum.

I would never set up a page such as the above unless it was something that the SB Association agreed it wanted to do.  But, with the status quo, nothing is to stop anyone from setting up their own group and growing it according to their own rules -  and then we lose control which has potential consequences for this forum.

[david]

I also am not a fan of facebook. I also do not use it. So, if there was a page on facebook. I would not be viewing it.

[Sea Simon]

Happy as-is.

No Facebook for me thanks.

[frobisher]

No thanks
This forum is first class why duplicate .I don't use/have [whatever the correct expression is]Facebook .
Frobisher

[charliea]

I'm not a fan of Facebook and I really like the Forum, it does a great job as a platform for sharing technical detail and other more general ramblings. I'm sure it's a real selling point for experienced boat owners who are considering buying a Swallow.

However, what it doesn't try to do is help sell Swallow Boats to a less experienced audience, but perhaps that's Matt's problem rather than ours?

I remember when I was considering my shortlist of possible first boats I spent around a year browsing around trying to gather as much information as I could. Pictures of Swallow Boats were few and far between.

For Facebook users (+ Flickr, Instagram and Pintrest) it's really easy to post photos from your phone when you're actually out sailing. I suspect the idea of sharing pictures of yourself is anathema to most of us, but it's very different for those under 40. For many of the yoof, if you can't share a photo of yourself doing something you may as well not do it.

I think a more active Facebook presence would help sell Swallow Boats to a younger audience but I'm not sure how many people who are active on the forum would engage with it.

If God had meant us to use the railways he wouldn't have created canals.

[Jonathan Stuart]

I think Julian has raised a good question and it's one I've also been thinking about recently. Where forums fall down and Facebook is brilliant, is for ad hoc posts "of the moment". For example, somone has a nice sail and simply posts a picture. People see it on their Facebook feed, "Like" it and then its gone. That could happen on a forum but it wouldn't work as well, which is why people don't use forums in that way. For example, we've just come back from a week's sailing from Weymouth to the Isle of Wight and back on our BC26 and there are experinces I would have shared on Facebook that I wouldn't (didn't) post here.

But there are problems with Facebook. First, many people don't use it and a good many of those seem vicerally opposed to it. Second, Facebook isn't great as a forum. I'm a member of a few Facebook groups and it's frustrating that the same questions are asked again and again because previous topics can't be seen in the same way as on a forum. Finally, I think there's a danger that the general popularity of Facebook kills the forum, and from Julian's comments that seems to have happened with the Drascombe site.

Julian's last post does address the second and third of those points. And I think he made a really good suggestion that Facebook posts better suited to the forum could be moderated and closed to comments with a note added that it should be raised on the forum. That might drive more people to the forum, which can only be a good thing.

If no-one uses a Facebook group then it fails and doesn't affect the forum. If it is popular and brings new people to the Association then that must be positive as long as it doesn't replace/duplicate the forum.

We can't get over the issue that some people won't use Facebook, although if Facebook is neither replicating nor replacing this forum then is that a problem? Also, I think it would be straightfoward to have a Facebook feed embedded in this Association website so everyone can view what's happening on FB (if they want) but without visiting Facebook or engaging in the Facebook activity.

I don't have strong views on this but I would like to be able to share my day-to-day sailing anecdotes and Facebook is the right place for that rather than the forum, so I'd support a Facebook community group. But strictly following the approach set out by Julian to ensure it supports the Association website and forum rather than threatening or duplicating it. Those that want to use Facebook can do so, and those with no interest in Facebook don't lose what they currently have in this forum.

Alternatvely, we setup something on this site that delivers some of what you get on social media but that isn't done in forums. I can't think what that could be if we want it to work properly, however I will think about this further. If anyone alse has any ideas then please add them here.

But unless we think of how to make this forum more conducive to the posts typical of social media, then I would support exploring whether a well moderated Facebook group could work.

[charliea]

I think the key point is finding something that allows you to quickly post a short comment and a picture from your phone. Ideally the photos would then end up on the forum but that's less important.

Personally I'd be far more comfortable using something like Flickr or Pintrest.

[Michael Rogers]

Don't do Facebook. Really appreciate the Forum as it is. Let's not rock the boat.
Michael R

[Jonathan Stuart]

I'm torn on this because I can see benefits in a FB group but don't want to rock the boat. What I'm struggling to understand is why people who aren't on Facebook are opposed to such a group given that it wouldn't affect this site and they wouldn't have to join the group. Wouldn't FB add to our options without changing or taking away what we have now? And if we're not the first to create a FB group and someone else does and their group replicates this forum then, given the popularity of Facebook, I fear that will be the start of a slow decline for this site.

[charliea]

I agree, I don't think I'd want to use Facebook myself but I do think it would appeal to some people far more than the forum and need not compete with it in any way.

I suspect the responses in this thread will tend to be from those who are comfortable with the existing forum and therefore don't see a need to change. What's missing is input from the owners who aren't here.

If someone is willing to run a Facebook page in a way that's sympathetic to the different roles of the two platforms I can't see any downside to trying it.

[Julian Merson]

Well, I did say it would be a marmite thing!
Here's a case in point.  Launched yesterday on the Orwell, cruised round to the Deben for an overnight stop, first of several on current trip.
On the way, bumped into another Drascomber turned BayCruiserer, took a picture.  In due course it will end up on my blog, as will this one of dusk on the Deben.
These things are good to share in the moment.  FB does that well since, beyond that moment, these things aren't that interesting and it will disappear  down the feed, as new content emerges.  On here, it just gets in the way of more substantive discussions.
Those who don't do FB don't need to worry.  I dislike most of it but it is made much more tolerable by a plethora of boating posts and just about every make of boat is represented on there with active user groups..... apart from Swallows.  Even if some don't enjoy this kind of thing, there are plenty of others that do.

[Matthew P]

To be fair I've now looked at the Drascombe Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/groups/drascombe/about

and the Drascombe Association Website
http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk/index.php

I grudgingly have to acknowledge the Drascombe Facebook site is impressive.  The content unfortunately considerably overlaps with the DA website which = double the effort for contributors and readers. 

Of the two the Facebook site is, in my opinion, more attractive, easier to read and contribute to.  This is a conclusion I did not want to reach because I personally resent Facebook's attempt to take over the web without the inconvenience of managing some of its distasteful content.  I notice I'm being drawn to Facebook (Facebook Marketplace V Ebay anyone?). What a wicked world.   

So now I'm comparing cream scones (tasty but maybe not healthy) with marmite and combining them is probably indigestible - or is it possible to enjoy both?.  Better stop the analogy there but I confess to a dilemma and need more guidance from Jonathan and others.

Matthew
BR20 Gladys