BayCruiser 23 BC23 mainsail sail slides

[Paul Beardsell]

There is a recent BC26 sail slides topic too but I thought perhaps best there is a separate one for the 23.

BC23 sail slides: I noticed one was broken Sunday. One by one another 5 broke yesterday. Is the replacement of this style of sail slide within the capability of someone with very middling skills, like me? Or should the mainsail be attended to by a professional, or by SY, or the original sail supplier?

Also: Is this damage merely to be expected on a 6-year old sail? Is it just the consequence of Lunar Blues (née Jaggie Thistle) being in the French sunshine much of that time? Or is it likely the sails have been misused, likely by me these last 6 happy weeks? :-)

Thanks for info and opinions! Pics attached

[Paul Beardsell]

I'm guessing just one episode of not properly raising the mainsail fully, or having the sail flogging during a prolonged reefing attempt could be enough to overstress the sliders. More pics:

[Sea Simon]

Unlucky, but lucky you got home safely?
Imho - UV damage - probably? Were the slides under a cover when not in use?

The arrangements on your BC 23 look very similar to those on my BRe. I guess all Hyde made, with same materials, and probably same factory in the Philippines?
I believe my top batten slide broke due to relatively high batten tension, high winds, and regular batten inversion (particularly after gybes in light winds).
I view my sail shackle repair as a substitute for a proper sailmakers sewn repair. I may be wrong? There is however now even more plastic...
I did notice that my sail is now slightly snugger to the mast (less gap) where the new shackle/slide is. A benefit? Perhaps this could be a performance benefit if the same over the full height of the luff?

Imo, I would get a sailmaker to do such a substantial repair to yours. Well beyond my sail repairing skills, and looks to be very hard work.

[Paul Beardsell]

Thanks, good advice. I phoned Hyde Sails. Very helpful. I've sent them photos.

[Sea Simon]

Please keep us posted. I'm curious.

Where are you based/where is sail?

Just seen your other post, looking for new sails.
If sails are shot too, then that could support my UV theory (above)?

Your boat seems to have had much more use than my 2016 BRe. But it was barely used for the first 18 months.
My sails are still satisfactory, although the poor cut of the original jib irritated me so much, that I have a better one now.

[Paul Beardsell]

I think the jib has been exposed in the French sun for six years.

The mainsail should be OK as the integrated sail bag lazy jacks system means that the sail should have been out of the sun together with the sliders. One slider went - who knows why but see below - and then I think the additional stress meant the neighbouring one was under too much strain and so on and so on.

I'm new to the boat. First time out I didn't get the main sail correctly raised. First time I reefed everything was very odd for an hour and there would have been extra stress on the sail both times. So I may have contributed to the main sail problem. Similarly I've had problems furling the jib when necessary, so here too maybe I've contributed in some way. On the other hand, the boat is 6 years old, I've had it 6 weeks. One expects a set of sails to last about this long, and the mainsail may be OK for another year or two if it's just the sliders.

Hyde Sails are easy to deal with. They put me on to Flew Sails in Porchester, Hyde Sails distributor. Both have nice things to say about Swallow Yachts and the boats. And Flew said of course that if I needed new sails I must buy thru Hyde as they referred me, and Hyde said they have an arrangement that typically new sails are bought thru SY.

Mark Flew of Flew Sails said he might be able to fix on Monday while I wait. I doubt he'll be able to fix the jib, but let's see, and I know nothing despite my assertions so confidently made 

[Nick Orchard]

It looks like the BC23 slides and attachment are exactly the same as on the BC26 - if you look carefully in the slots on the bulb part it probably says 'Bainbridge' on one side and 'A017' on the other. As mentioned on the BC26 version of this thread it seems that these break on a pretty regular basis, I think they're just not strong enough for the job basically. I don't think U/V is to blame as they spend most of their lives under the cover, and I've had a couple of virtually brand new ones break after only a few outings. The A107S version that I've replaced them with have survived much better, no breakages after a couple of seasons, although they can get bent, so it shows the sort of forces they're dealing with. The one that seems to suffer the most is the top batten slide, as this is the one that gets pulled furthest round when you ease the sail off-wind combined with the stress from the batten. I've just replaced this one with a Bainbridge A032, which is sold as a boom outhaul slide for dinghies, but it looks like a good stronger alternative to the A107S. It's longer than the A107, but as I'm only replacing one then the stack of slides still fits inside the boom cover (just). Haven't sailed with it yet, we'll see how it gets on - probably pull the mast track off instead of bending now!

Regarding fitting, it doesn't require a great deal of sail making skills (I don't claim to have any), although you do need a proper sail making needle and a palm to push it through (plus pliers to pull it out the other side). As with most things there are a few YouTube videos to show you how. What makes it considerably easier though is the toy that Santa brought me this year in the shape of a 'Speedy Stitcher' sewing awl. This clever gadget is basically an awl with an eye in the pointy end to take the thread. You can push it through the multi layers of webbing very easily, pull a loop of thread through and pass the loop back over the slide so it's on the same side as you started, then pull it tight, and repeat as many times as you fancy. I reckon I can now replace a slide in less than 5 minutes, which is a lot quicker and cheaper than sending it off to a sailmaker! If you can't re-use the original webbing you'll need to get hold of some. I initially tried the cheapskate option of B&Q's webbing, which lasted a season or so but one or two actually chafed through. The proper stuff is tubular but I found it difficult to get hold of and eventually found some dyneema webbing at a reasonable price, so trying that now.  The idea of avoiding all this palaver by using sail shackles is interesting and I'll be interested to hear how well they last. Very easy to replace though, could even do it at sea if necessary.

Sail life - mine are 4 seasons/5 winters old now and still holding up pretty well. Having said that, I have just had the sacrificial U/V strips on the luff and foot of the jib replaced by a local sailmaker (Westaway in Ivybridge) as the originals were shades of green and black. I should really have taken the jib off over winter but have perhaps been overly optimistic about the number of nice sailing days in winter. 

[Sea Simon]

Seems like BC 26, BC 23, and BRe have very similar, if not identical sail slide arrangements?

PB
If your main is so bad, it warrants replacement, I'd suggest that repairing your existing sail with shackles and slides, as per my top batten
(see https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,1956.msg14636.html#msg14636) under BC 26 sail slides, will allow you to continue sailing this season?

Quick and easy, no need for a sailmaker.

[Paul Beardsell]

Thanks very much to Nigel & Wooderz of Hyde Sails for excellent advice re my tired and abused Hyde sails on my otherwise brilliant new (but second hand 6 years old) Swallow Yachts BayCruiser 23.

And thanks to both Mark & Mark for excellent advice, support & service at Flew Sails, the local (Portchester) Hyde Sails agent. They repaired both genoa & main for reasonable cost and very promptly.

I delivered my sails to Flew Sails on Monday and they were repaired ready for collection end Wednesday.

Flew Sails told me the jib had been furled the wrong way around for some time, certainly not just the 7 weeks I've had the boat. The sail was protecting the UV strip.

Flew were surprised the slides on the main sail had broken.

Finally thanks to the very good advice also received from several of you here.

[Nick Orchard]

Glad to hear you're up and running again without having to get new sails, and good to have had such good service. Not surprised to hear that your sail was furled the wrong way - mine was delivered with it furled the wrong way, and I noticed another 26 with the same problem last year, so it might be a more common issue than people realise.

[Sea Simon]

Good news re the prompt repairs/good service.
Did they sew, or use shackles? Any comments?

Also, excellent advice re furling sails!

[Paul Beardsell]

Jib: I've ordered a new jib from SY anyway, even though it seems to have been well repaired by Flew Sails. The repair required a very wide overly wide UV strip so as to reinforce the UV damaged sail. I'll be pleased to have one in reserve even if the current one lasts another two seasons.

Main: The broken sail slides were replaced like for like and in the same standard way, after some discussion. I agreed with the recommendation from Mark Flew that I was better off with what he thought are very adequately strong sail slides (at least when new) that I would be with damage caused to track or sail should overly strong slides not break. OK, best point of failure is the slide, but perhaps the two remaining slides should have been replaced also?

Other very minor repairs done both sails. I understand that some people take their sails for a "service" to a sailmaker every year. I'm guessing that didn't happen these last 6 years my boat.

[Paul Beardsell]

Glad to hear you're up and running again without having to get new sails, and good to have had such good service. Not surprised to hear that your sail was furled the wrong way - mine was delivered with it furled the wrong way, and I noticed another 26 with the same problem last year, so it might be a more common issue than people realise.

I discover the furling mechanism works well both clockwise and anti-clockwise. I guess what may happen is one might be tempted to think the furling is happening the incorrect direction when the hole in the drum is not properly positioned. That is easily fixed by rotating the attachment of the furling drum's shackle 180degs. That's the fix sometimes required after attaching the jib.

Given that usually at all times EITHER sail is furled OR the furling rope is wound around the furler THEN the direction of rotation of furling will not change during normal operation of the boat including even rigging/de-rigging the boat for trailering.

Incorrect rotation furling direction when once the direction was correct can only be a result of unwinding both sail and furling rope, then re-winding (either the sail or) the drum (only) in the other direction. Unless this messy operation has been done by the owner an incorrect furling direction is an assembly error by boatyard/rigger/sailmaker upon original boat delivery or later service.

[Sea Simon]

Useful info there PB, thanks.

I noticed mine had furled the wrong way, luckily, at the start of the season after first lay up, when I had removed and "eased" the tightly furled jib prior to stowage off the boat. Sails go in house loft over winter, after a fresh water hose down.
All of the rope had come out of the drum.
Took a minute or two of head-scratching at re-rigging, but easily sorted - IF you remember!

Remember also that your mizzen is similarly vulnerable to "miss-furling". Mine seems to have a sacaraficial strip, assume this is standard?
I always remove mine, furled on the mast, and stow it under the cover while the boat is left on its mooring.

[Peter Cockerton]

On an outing in strong winds the other week, chatting with Andy D and distracted by an all female crew on a very fast catamaran my BR20 gybed quite violently and took seven sail slides (A017) as hostage.
Living in the Midlands with no sail lofts nearby i decided to try and replace the slides myself.
The slides which attach to cringles were very easy to replace as you can use the plastic/nylon shackles

Sail Shackles Small Snap-In Anti Jamming Plastic (A023) Each
SKU: A023
The slides which attach to the sail where the battens are fitted is the main challenge as the moulding on the sail has a slot to accommodate webbing, the webbing is initially sewn onto the slide and after two wraps around the batten moulding and through the slide it is then stitched through the luff rope and the webbing and  also in the gap between the luff rope and the sail slide to firmly secure the webbing and slide.
I ordered one of those "handy stitching tools" as per a previous post advice, without it the job would have been impossible I think.
One thought did come to mind as I'm sure no doubt I will get breakages again on the slides which require stitching, could I lash the slides with several turns of a good quality UV resistant cord and make it off like we do on the mast shrouds. This would be much quicker and also potentially stop damage to the luff rope when your force the stitching needle through several times when stitching the webbing.