BC26 : Impressions and advice please

[AndyB]

I bought Bagpuss from Jonathan backend of August. Prior to this I had a Hunter Liberty 22 for 22 years so it has been a shock to the system to get a new boat with a different sail plan and a much more up to date design. I also run the Hunter Liberty web-site and like Jonathan will be continuing that for them.

I have appreciated the more modern approach and performance that the BC26 has brought and I look forward to  another 22 years with her so thank you Jonathan for selling her to me.

There were some items I wanted to ask about - please bear in mind my newness and therefore  there are solutions out there that I do not know about.

Some questions :
1. I was looking to move the boat to a mooring but noted there is no central cleat on the boat. Is there a method to attach the mooring?

2. The shrouds are rubbing against the life-lines and one of the strands has worn through. I am ordering replacements from Swallow Yachts - has anyone re-fitted these? I assume you drop the mast replace them re-raise it and then carry out the tensioning. How are people preventing the wearing and is this common?

3. The port cam cleat for the Jib sticks when you try to remove the line and stops it being removed. Is this also common? I have lubricated it so will see if that helps?

4. The outhaul is adjusted on the boom by the mast. I have changed this and moved it to the cockpit via one of the spare clutches. Have others done this? I have always adjusted the outhaul whilst sailing but is this something others do - maybe it is not necessary.

5. The motor that raises the keel sticks if you raise it too far and the switch to stop that stops it after it sticks. I can get round this by manually checking as you raise it. Has anyone had this and is there a solution to it? I was thinking of lowering the switch or raising the piece of metal that stops it.

Thank you for reading this long topic and I do hope there are some answers out there.

I am in the Solent Area so anyone I can meet up with who has a BC26 that I can take lessons learnt from would be fantastic.

[Nick Orchard]

Hi Andy

Welcome to the fleet! (Small but select)

I've just spent an hour or so replying to your various points in detail but came to post it and found I'd been timed out and it's junked the lot! D'oh! Don't have time to repeat it all at the moment so apologies for brevity but can fill you in with more detail if you need it.

1. Just use the bow cleats and pass the rope down the bow roller - works fine for short stays, either from just one side or use both. For permanent mooring I'd use a rope/chain bridle and put some decent anti-chafe where the rope goes past anything that rubs.

2. My shrouds are very close to the lifelines but don't seem to rub, possibly because the lifelines aren't as tight as they should be. Perhaps put some anti-chafe on the lifelines/shrouds.

3. Yes cam cleats can be difficult to uncleat when the sheet is loaded up, and lubrication won't help much, needs a pretty hefty upward yank. Best option is to try and uncleat when the load comes off the sail in the tack, or luff up a bit if trying to ease the sheet. I've changed to Spinlock PXR cleats which crew find easier to use and claim to uncleat easily under load, but they're not perfect and can still be difficult when the sheet is hard on.

4. Outhaul lead to cockpit would be nice but haven't done it myself. Watch out for boom bag restricting the rearward movement of the clew. I've fitted a 2:1 purchase on the clew to make adjustment easier.

5. The keel switch is intended to stop the motor trying to pull the rope attachment bracket off the top of the keel when it reaches the top of its travel. If this happened then the keel would drop to the bottom of the slot with no rope attached - definitely D'oh! The idea is that the switch stops the 'up' direction but still allows the 'down'. The 'up' direction is re-enabled when the switch springs out again once the keel has dropped enough. You shouldn't need to move the switch position but you may need to replace it. I've had two problems with it, once when the roller lever somehow got trapped and mangled. The other problem is less obvious but the return spring inside the switch is not stainless steel, and although there is a rubber boot I found my spring had rusted away to nothing so the switch wasn't resetting itself. Spares are available from RS Components, switch is stock no 308272 £23.69 and roller lever is stock no 308171 £5.96 - just looked because I'd meant to get a spare myself but forgotten. Fortunately the switch is easily accessible for replacement.

Have fun!

Nick

[AndyB]

Nick,
Thank you for responding. How big is the fleet, it would be interesting to know who they are and where they sail....

It is interesting about the 2:1 purchase on the outhaul. If you have a photo that would be great.

The switch is easily replaced and I did take it out and reset it so this maybe the reason. I will get a new one as you suggest.

The cam cleat was proudly shown to me by Matt in the way it rotated to allow you to use the winch to tighten the jib. However your idea sounds better, again a photo would be great. I maybe tightening the Jib too much - I have not really used a jib for some 22 years so still learning the adjustment. Even when going about the sheet does not come free.

But thank you for your thoughts.

Andy B

[Nick Orchard]

Andy
How big is the fleet? Good question - I asked Matt at the Boat Show and he wasn't sure "about 20" he said. So if Matt doesn't know then who does? I think part of the problem is the numbering might have got a little confused somewhere along the line. You will see that BC26 001 has been up for sale on the Swallow brokerage site for quite a while, but this appears to be a prototype and doesn't look much like the rest of the fleet inside or out. We tend to regard 001 to be Basil Papadimitriou's Muddy Waters, although he sails with a GBR sail number. I think Muddy Waters is the wood/epoxy plug from which the GRP mould was made, and is also quite unlike all the other boats because Basil has filled it with numerous ingenious ideas for compact living - well worth a guided tour if you ever get to see it (in Chichester Harbour). The first GRP boat was 002 Redwing in Topsham, 003 Iris is in Torquay, as am I 008 and also 011 Zephyr is here too, which brings me to the next numbering issue. I see on the boat register that Stuart has put Bagpuss as 011 but Richard Carson certainly has 011 on his sail so which boat is the real 011? 004 was originally owned by Nick Peters but he sold it and I don't know where it is now. 005 I don't know, 006 is still on the boat register as belonging to the Walder-Davis' but I think they sold it to an English couple who keep it in the Baltic. 007 went to Germany, 009, 010 and 012 don't know but maybe one of them is Zephyr/Bagpuss? 013 is Betty Blue in Woolverstone marina, and 018 Floki is on the Beaulieu River. Apart from that I believe that there's one in Milford Haven and one in Denmark, the rest I don't know.

Re the outhaul - I don't have a photo at the moment but it's a simple mod. Take the outhaul off the clew and attach a block to the clew either with a lashing or a soft shackle. Reeve the end of the outhaul through the block and attach it to the ring on the end of the boom. Job done. While you're doing this you might want to check the boom bag allows sufficient movement of the clew. I also removed about 25m of lashing line that the Swallow rigger had used to attach the boom bag to the end of the boom, seemed to have been a little over-cautious with it!

Re the cam cleats - when you said they were stiff I assumed that you meant the cleat itself, but the swivel bases do get stiff after a while and I do lubricate them occasionally. They are needed to feed the sheet fairly onto the winches and seem to work ok in this respect, although the port side is not as good because the sheet has to go forward of the drum whereas the starboard side leads to the aft side, which is an easier lead. I still use the swivel bases with the Spinlock cleats. On the whole I try not to use the winches with the jib sheets, if you're quick you can get the sheet fully in before it loads up, and off-wind you don't need the winch. Some people have got 2:1 jib sheets which makes it easier to sheet in but gives you twice as much rope of course. One of the advantages of the PXR cleats is that they are a lot less liable to accidentally re-cleat half way through the tack. (Photo attached.). If you do decide to change to PXR's make sure you get the 'Retrofit T' version as that one fits the same holes in the swivel base as the original cleats, but you'll need shorter screws (still M6 I think). You'll need to cut them as near as you can to exactly the right length, i.e. long enough to have all the threads engaged in the base plate, but not so long that they protrude out the back of the plate and touch the deck preventing the swivel plate from moving (and scratching the deck!)
Nick

 

[AndyB]

Hi Nick,
Thanks for yet more information.

I have Bagpuss 011 from Jonathan. You would have thought Matt would have had a register with the sequence built and who to etc....

I have looked at the shrouds and life lines and I think the outer shroud should go on the outside of the upper life line not the inside as the life-line itself looks bent. I wondered if anyone could confirm that? The pictures of other boats show it on the inside..... Maybe a peculiarity  with this one.

I went out for a sail yesterday on my own and you are right about releasing the jib early. If you don't you quickly go into irons. Interesting Swallow Yachts say the sheet is 10mm but I measure it bigger - it looks bigger than the main. The cleat is made to handle 6-12mm according to Swallows but I think the sheet is either 12mm or tad bigger. I have purchased some 8mm just to see if that makes the difference.
Andy B

[Nick Orchard]

Hi Andy
Firstly apologies to Jonathan for calling him Stuart in a previous post - technically correct but rather more formal than I had intended!
I have my shrouds outside the top lifeline, but I noticed that when tied up alongside Betty Blue recently her shrouds were inside and were certainly rubbing more than mine. I can't remember if Swallow rigged mine inside and I moved them or if they put them outside, but I think outside looks better from the chafe point of view.

I forgot to mention that one of the first things I did was to change to thinner jib sheets. I agree that the originals seemed to be thicker than 10mm as I bought some 10mm sheets that are definitely thinner, but still possibly too thick. I might try some 8mm and see how they go. (The PXR cleats only take rope up to 10mm by the way, and it's quite snug where it feeds through so 8mm would be better). I have also been experimenting with the main sheet which I find has far too much friction in the system. I tried the original sheet but rigged 4:1 instead of 5:1, much less friction but hard work if it's windy. 8mm with 4:1 was a bit hard on the hands so I'm now using 8mm and back to 5:1. I'd like to try 9mm but doesn't seem to be a sailing rope size, although is used for climbing ropes.

Needless to say that in 5 years I've made enough 'improvements' to write a book on so can't tell you everything in one post, but if you need advice on anything 26 related then just ask. (Or head down to Torquay where Alistair and I will bore for England on how to fiddle with the BC26!).
Nick

[AndyB]

Hi Nick,
I have purchased some 8mm sheets so will take them down to the boat and if weather permits a sail this weekend to have  a try.

I wondered what all that rope was for the boom cover - will investigate and see what to cut off.

I would like to come to Torguay  and look at your mods. Not sure when you take the boats out but it would have to be a weekend. Maybe drive down in the morning and then back in the evening. Spend the afternoon there.
I'll message you separately on that.

Andy B

[Nick Orchard]

Hello again Andy
I checked my shrouds today and they're definitely outside the lifelines, at least a 2" gap so they would certainly chafe badly if they were inside.

Alistair and I both leave our boats in all year round so you'd be very welcome to visit any time, suggest you pm me and we'll sort something out, would be good to meet another 26 owner.

Nick

[AndyB]

I have fitted 8mm sheets and went for a sail yesterday. They work just fine but I think the PXR cleats looks a better solution. However I will pursue with the current cleats and see what happens. Standing behind the main sheet to steer and also popping up the cleats is difficult but at least doable. However a new problem the sheet gets caught under the mast - maybe this is why they used a larger sheet. Need to see how I fill the gap whilst sailing.

The outhaul in the cockpit is also a good move as yesterday I changed it to reflect the changing wind speed. And Nick you are right about the boom bag.

Interesting about the shrouds as well. I need to order some new ones and then replace them in the proper place however currently it is not 2". Maybe reflects the custom build of the boats.

Thanks for the saying yes to coming to Torquay. I will PM you later.

Andy B

[Sea Simon]

Stretching the subject of this thread slightly? (But I think still on topic?)

.....as far as I am aware this new type of 4 speed winches are only currently available (and, perhaps, necessary?) On the BC 26? I beleive Pontos winches are optional extras?
How are people finding this new tech? Worth the extra cost?

I understand some people are using 2:1 jib sheets on BC23s? These winches may be of interest to them?

[Nick Orchard]

Pontos was sold to Karver a couple of years ago so the winches are now sold under the Karver brand name. The one fitted to the BC26 is the Compact version, which is 2 speed - the 4 speed winches are the bigger sizes. The usp of the Pontos/Karver Compact is the gear ratios that they use. The low ratio 1st gear has low power but high line speed, i.e. each turn of the winch winds in more rope length than the competition, but you'll need to switch to the 2nd speed sooner than you would on say a Lewmar 2 speed. The high ratio 2nd gear is higher geared than the alternatives so it's easier to apply a high force, but the downside is the lower line speed, so more turns needed. The obvious question - is it worth the extra cost? - depends on how strong/fit you and your crew are, which in my case is 'not very'. The standard winch is only single speed, so a compromise between speed and power. I think the higher power of the 2 speed winch is well worth it for mast raising, and was also useful for getting the keel up when it was jammed by fod. For winching in the jib sheets it's probably not necessary, and has the potential for breaking/ripping/bending things that get caught unnoticed.

Re the sheets getting caught under the turning block units at the foot of the mast - yes we've all discovered that one. My solution is to fill up the space where it gets caught with closed-cell foam and wind some electrical tape a few times round the foot of the mast to hold it in place. Not very pretty but works for me. I think others may have spent a little more time and effort on more elegant solutions!

Nick

[Keith P]

Hi Andy,

Like you we are new to the fleet, and based at Bucklers Hard.

Floki, is only a few months old, so like you we are finding our way around her. That being said we are really impressed with her, having been out in a mixture of wind and sea state there's little doubt she can handle the bigger wind and seas.

I have yet to gain enough experience and knowledge to confidently offer advice when there are others like Nick and Alistair in Torquay who have far more knowledge about BS26's than I do.

It would be great to meet up and share info etc, my email is keith@comech.co.uk.

Floki is staying on the water throughout the winter as we plan to sail her right through albeit on the better days.

Keith

[AndyB]

Hi Keith,
It would be good to meet up with you and will email you separately. I am in the Itchen but moving to WicoMarine in Portsmouth. Just for a change really. I had thought of Bucklers Hard and went to look at it but I felt a little far away from where I live but it would be interesting to hear your perspective.

Nick, I have put a piece of rope around the base as you can see in the attachment. Not tried it yet but can't see why it won't work. I might try on Saturday depending on the weather.

[Nick Orchard]

I think your rope round the mast should do the trick - looks more nautical than my gaffer tape!
Nick

[Keith P]

Hi Andy,

Sure please do email me.

re Bucklers Hard - now, we like it, but at first we struggled. Put simply its a fast flowing river sometimes with double tides, which is fine but after they dredged out the river for the new pontoons the stream at Ebb and flood can be very fast close to the westerly shore which then rips out onto the pontoons midway down the marina. We are lucky I had a word and we were moved to an outer pontoon right in the middle of the river so we now have no problem at any state of the tide. I think the downside is the distance, it can take 40mins to get out of the river which on a day sail can take up to 2hrs out of your day. Our other issue is that there is nowhere to get a beer and food, the Hotel, post COVID refuses to serve anyone other than guests. There is a café but not really what you want after a great day out. Then for some reason this last summer they have closed the showers from 8:00pm onwards every night, again not good after a long wet day out. But I suppose most marinas have their unique problems, I sailed out of Ocean Village for a couple of years and there were the usual things that irritated.

We are staying out on the water, we intend sailing right through. We have a had a few issues with the boat which have meant they took priority over sailing which has been an annoyance but they are being sorted, we are desperate to get out and go somewhere which hasn't been possible.