Baycruiser 23 Engine

[trailing by]

Hello, I'm a bit of an oldie, but new on here and I'm considering a Baycruiser 23 and will keep an eye out for anything coming up second-hand. It'll be quite a change for us as we have been sailing larger, more offshore-oriented boats for some years.  However, we started on dinghies and then progressed to a Cornish Shrimper (inboard) and have also trailed and sailed a Red Fox 20 (outboard).

I only know a little about the BC23, but she looks as if she might well suit our move back to trailer sailing.  It appears that the boat was designed primarily with outboard propulsion in mind and I wonder how many have been built with inboards.  The pros and cons list for both engine types is endlessly debatable, but overall, I've come to prefer inboards.  I'd be interested in any comments from BC23 sailors, especially if they have any knowledge / experience of the inboard.

[Rosieferg]

Hi There
I went through the same thought process re outboard v inboard engine but was completely (and I think correctly) convinced by Matt of Swallow Yachts that the boat is much better suited to having an outboard. And in fact there are I think very few built with inboards 
Reluctantly I am having to sell my boat, and wonder whether you might be interested. She was built in 2021, very high spec and in pretty much immaculate condition.  She is pale grey, with teak trim, performance rig, Garmin chartplotter, harken winches, Yamaha 9.9 outboard with electric start , brand new (never been in the water) custom made trailer. Sail no is 78. She has been sailed very little and is currently stored undercover.  Let me know if you would like more details and pic.

[trailing by]

Thanks Rosieferg.  There are some obvious things in favour of inboards but some discussions outside this forum has given a list of things against:

extra weight
no ability to dry out
extra drag when sailing
loss of space
hassle of anodes etc
trailer needs greater immersion, including hubs

For me, the drying out issue is important, and, as I want to launch / recover the boat myself rather than pay for craneage, the trailer immersion is critical too.

Unfortunately, my budget won't stretch to your boat Rosieferg.  She looks really good - nice colour.

[Sea Simon]

A few thoughts, fwiw? My BC 26 is inboard diesel, saildrive.

extra weight....yes undoubtedly.
no ability to dry out.... Not so. I can, and do dry out. However, need to be very aware of the vulnerable saildrive.
extra drag when sailing. ...Not too bad. Saildrive aperture has a fairing diaphragm.  Folding prop.
loss of space...yes.
hassle of anodes etc...yes, especially  on a Beta Marine diesel/twin disc drive leg. They eat anodes (lots of dissimilar metals). Fortunately,  as a Marine Engineer I do my own maintenance, in situ of of course.
trailer needs greater immersion, including hubs...yes, very much so. Immersing a double axle braked trailer can quickly/easily become very expensive and time consuming. My trailer has never been in the water, the boat being moved by a yard hoist and placed on the trailer, mast up. Original owner used to take the mast down (alloy - so crane required), then tow home behind a Land Rover for barn storage.  I have neither LR, nor barn; she lives in a yard near home. As before, the boat is launched in the spring, and recovered in the autumn.
My Storage fees include over-summering the trailer. It is too big/heavy to move by hand.

For me, the drying out issue is important, and, as I want to launch / recover the boat myself rather than pay for craneage, the trailer immersion is critical too.
...Yes... to me, the owners planned routine/cycle of usage is the key driver in "acceptability " of an inboard? Now in my 2nd season, it definitely works for me. Quiet, very economical, reliable, always immediately available (as is the fuel, there are several ports hereabouts where "bulk petrol" is not readily available.

Other things?
Obvioulsy...Trailer/train size/weight. My trailer maybe about a Ton MT, I fear? Towed it once behind my ordinary estate car. Not something I'd want to do regularly,  it definitely had control of the car. With boat loaded, it would be over 10m long (not that I'd be able to move it with the car, even if stupid enough to try)!
Years ago, as a group of pals, we campaigned an International 6m (almost 40ft, maybe 8T - perhaps more?) Towing a tri-axle trailer behind a very large US Ford F650 double rear wheel pick up. Towing to France decided for me that it was NOT the sort of thing that I wanted to do for a "holiday". This gets complicated,  and VERY expensive. Nerve wracking! Wealthier owners use especially converted 7.5 T flat bed lorries, towing the support rhib on a trailer. The very wealthiest,  adapted curtain side artics, and have "a chap" to do the work! It's  all possible -what is your budget!?

Towing a BC 23 might be about my personal limit, in financial/commitment terms (needs a bigger car, more fuel, more "admin") and in terms of "nerve"?

However, I'm fortunate,  in that besides being mid Cornwall based (S Devon or Falmouth both half a days sail distant),  I have pals with boats based in both Scilly and W Scotland, so really no need to move/tow mine very far.

So...maybe don't dismiss an inboard, should one turn up - it might suit? But,  As far as I know, there are very few.

[trailing by]

That's good info Sea Simon.
Either I misunderstood about the inability to dry out, or perhaps it relates to the 23 but not the 26.  Regardless, I think the trailer immersion issue becomes the deciding factor against the inboard.  A shame really because an inboard would be my preference if all things were equal. 
Yes - 23 foot feels like enough as far as towing is concerned and I certainly wouldn't fancy your mega tri-axle rig!  But I do hope to do proper trailer sailing to different areas so we'll see how it goes.
I noticed a post from a Baycruiser 26 owner who had found that side of it too much and had ended up keeping his boat in one place which hadn't been the original plan.  I hope I don't end up with the same experience!

[Graham W]

My first boat was a Norfolk Gypsy with a Yanmar 10hp inboard https://www.neilthompsonboats.co.uk/preowned/norfolk-gypsy-turaco/.  This is the same boat that I owned - she had a navy blue hull when I had her.  Although the same length as the BayRaider, she weighed nearly three times as much and was reassuringly solid.

As with the BC26 mentioned above, I never intended to use her as a trailerable day sailer, flitting from place to place.  But she could be towed to a new sailing area at the start of each season, before boredom had a chance to set in.  That involved a tow car with a large engine (a Vauxhall Senator) and finding a new secure mooring each year, usually a marina with pontoons.  An expensive way of going about things with a relatively small boat and this was the reason why I eventually sold her.  On the other hand, secondhand values for older Gypsies have tended to rise rather than fall, compensating for sometimes eye-watering operating costs.

[Nicky R]

I think there's a lot of difference between trailer sailing the 23 and the 26. I don't know what towing the 26 is like, but we find that the 23 is the right side of far enough! We exclusively trailer sail our 23, which is stored in a caravan storage site near home. You will need a reasonably large car - we tow with a four wheel drive A6 - but have found trailing her relatively easy provided we don't go above 60 mph. (She tows beautifully up to 60mph, but unless the road is very smooth, starts to feel a little bit light if we go much beyond that speed.)

Hopefully you will enjoy trailer sailing as much as we do. We love the freedom to explore new places and to decide on where to go based on the weather and tides.

[Sea Simon]

OP, as you've already experienced both a Shrimper and a Red Fox, seems to me you'll have a good idea of what to expect?

My BC 26 is a pre production prototype and, imho, very much in the Shrimper/Crabber camp as regards being a small sailer that is trailerable. Mine not a trailer sailer...at least to me! Current BC 26s differ in configuration.

The unknown here seems to be what exactly is the configuration of an inboard BC23? Shaft or Sail drive? Legs required to dry out?
Mine sits on a sort of tripod, formed by the keel bulb (drop keel, not centreboard type arrangement) and the two rudder stocks. The yard did not recommend that I left it on a semi drying mooring full-time, it's  very hard on the boat (hence it lives permanently afloat).
I'd be surprised  if an inboard BC23 dries out like this? Maybe a shaft drive exiting via a small skeg is tucked up enough for it to sit on its hull bottom? Anyone have photos please?

That said, where I live many Crabbers, Shrimpers, Cape Cutter even a Golant Gaffer and the like do regularly dry out here. Some require beaching legs. Some old "banger boats" appear not to even bother with legs (when obvioulsy they really should) and still survive years...
However, in the 35 years I've been watching this river, I've seen bilge keel Centaurs and a Southerly lift keeler sunk by conflabs with their mooring chains! The very lovely Golant Gaffer didn't  stay long....even here in Golant!

[trailing by]

Thanks for the interesting stuff about towing.

My Shrimper towing days were many moons ago but I remember it as a heavy old beast struggling up Devon hills, so contemplating going back into it now, I am reassured - thanks Nicky R - that the 23 sounds ok for towing even if she's close to the limit of comfortable.  60 mph is often good going on the motorways these days, whether towing a boat or driving a Ferrari.

I think I may have been using the terminology loosely: my version of trailer-sailing will be - I hope -  taking the boat to a new cruising area for a reasonable chunk of time, maybe even a good part of the season...as Graham W describes.  Launching & recovering all the time is not what I have in mind.

Being new on here, I've had a good voyage around the excellent website and found loads of good stuff, including the blog about the 23 sailed around Britain over a number of seasons.  I also came across the prototype BC26 review in an American publication: what a pretty boat!  The issue of standing headroom is the thing as ever: good looking small boats just can't have standing headroom can they?  Any exceptions?  But what is the actual headroom on the BC26 1001 - if that is the number?

Going back to the original discussion, I have seen an image somewhere of the propshaft arrangement for an inboard 23 and when I find it, I'll see if I can figure out how to upload it.  

[trailing by]

Re-reading my last post, I see that I have, without meaning to, implied that the production BC26 can't be a good looking boat.  I did not mean that!  It is a good-looking boat, it really is.  Just not quite as pretty as the prototype in those magazine photos.

[Sea Simon]

My BC 1001, as it's now known, has standing headroom at a MAX of about 5ft. Sitting headroom throughout. 
At a height of 5ft 8, so far it's usually worked for me...but a couple of unplanned captive "wet weekends" on board were  perhaps at my limit? A transparent  acrylic washboard really helps tho, physiologically,  if not added head room 

As Matt said, he's  sold a lot more boats with the added headroom...prettier...or (definitely not,  imho) not! As I've  said on here before, I can live with the lack of headroom due, at least in part, to the glow/pride that I get as I approach the boat on the water.

I'd have one of the proposed new BC 32's in a heartbeat...looks/layout very much like my BC 26, but with standing headroom. Interesting  that the engine conundrum appears to have been solved, by using an "inboard outboard", perhaps rather like the installation on the Coast 250?

Sounds to me like a BC 23, either inboard or outboard, would probably suit you very well?

What we haven't  discussed, is the sparking sailing performance of all of these Swallow boats. All of which, imho, are leagues ahead of the Drascombes, Crabbers etc alternatives.