Events - READ THIS FIRST

[Jonathan Stuart]

Thanks Edwin. The RYA document you mentioned looks useful but is quite long so I haven't read it properly yet. I will do so and then provide any required updates.

You are absolutely right that events shouldn't be limited to "experienced, skilled and known sailors" and we need to keep these open and accessible. So we need to find a balance where we can do that without imposing a responsibility on the organiser - even requiring them to make "reasonable endeavours", etc, to provide relevant information could, I suspect, make them liable if they fail to make such endeavours and I think that could deter people from organising events.

So we need to be clear that organisers are encouraged to provide information and support but that responsibility ultimately lies with the individual. I think in practice this is what we are doing so we just need to ensure the Terms, etc, reflect that.

[Michael Rogers]

No Andy, you are not being naive. That's it exactly. And I have to confess I was taken in by your irony and was fizzing with indignation until I reached your second paragraph!

I very much like David's formulation (27 June) -could we adopt that? If necessary we could start a meet with one of those team huddles and all solemnly intone it. (I'm joking about the huddle and recitation, but not about the concept.)

It's interesting, when we start to discuss this you can see how all this Elf'n'safety RUBBISH started. Do let's change the subject!

Michael

[Jonathan Stuart]

Having read the RYA document Colin mentioned and also in light of the "lessons learnt" discussion after the Weymouth event, I have made some further changes to the first post. Hopefully this captures the spirit we have been discussing, strikes the right balance and we can move on.

[Peter Cockerton]

Having read the RYA document Colin mentioned and also in light of the "lessons learnt" discussion after the Weymouth event, I have made some further changes to the first post. Hopefully this captures the spirit we have been discussing, strikes the right balance and we can move on.

Jonathon

This paragraph from the Events T's and C's has me a little perplexed as I'm not sure how to differentiate between "reasonable efforts" and "a more hands on approach" the latter and the possibility of being found negligent concerns me greatly.

"However, organisers may wish to consider the right balance between making reasonable efforts to provide useful information and taking a more hands-on management approach. The former should help ensure a safe and enjoyable event. But a more hands on approach may cause you to have a greater duty of care to participants, i.e. you may have taken on greater responsibilities "through this approach and must fulfil them, which, if breached, could cause you to be negligent".

The T's and C's are excellently drafted and strike a good balance between common sense and duty of care but i would like the above clarifying if it could be done simply.

Many thanks for your hard work on this.

Peter Cockerton

[Jonathan Stuart]

Peter,

I take your point. I had written those words to try to steer organisers in the right direction but without me putting myself on thin ice by giving legal opinion (which I am not qualified to do). I don't want to be liable for giving duff legal advice!!!

But I've looked at this again and made further changes. There is now a whole section on liability because I think it's worth explaining more of the background to organisers - especially as the risks to organisers are probably not as bad as many might think.

Please read the new version and let me know what you think.

[EDWIN DAVIES]

I see the Drascombe forum now has a "Rally risk assessments" posting for members only. Have we any dual members to check out? Might be interesting/informative.

[EDWIN DAVIES]

very sad news on the Drascombe forum.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2725080/Pensioner-66-missing-capsized-yacht-drowned-coast-Ireland-massive-air-sea-search.html

[Graham W]

I see the Drascombe forum now has a "Rally risk assessments" posting for members only. Have we any dual members to check out? Might be interesting/informative.

I found this on a non-members page http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk/rally/rally-guidelines.pdf  It discusses risk on page 5 and includes a risk assessment form in Appendix IV.

[EDWIN DAVIES]

Thanks Graham.

[Nick Orchard]

As organisers of the forthcoming Summer Cruise from Torquay in August we are required by Torbay Harbour to provide them with a number of documents, including a risk assessment. Having reviewed a number of sources for examples, including the RYA, the Health & Safety Executive, and the Drascombe Association website as quoted above, we have produced the attached event risk assessment. As you will see it is fairly comprehensive, but I'm sure that there are things that we haven't thought of. In order to make it truly representative of the views of the SYA members we would be very happy to receive comments and suggestions for improvement. It could then become a standard form for future events, perhaps with a review for each event just to see if there are things specific to the event which might need to be added/changed.

While it may look rather complicated at first sight, I hope you find it reasonably logical to follow. (In case you don't notice the tabs at the bottom of the page there are several Excel sheets that make up the set). It also includes a copy of the Drascombe Association RA for reference.

Looking forward to your comments!

Nick Orchard & Alistair Conquer

p.s. if you think it's OTT imagine what the RA for the G7 meeting in Carbis Bay looks like!