Paint - enough to drive you potty

[Clem Freeman]

Steve,

Looks good to me.

[Steve Joyce]

Did you spot the dead flies?  I think they were dying when they flew into the fumes.  Fortunately they just brushed off when the paint was dry.  Having turned it over to start on the bottom I can now see all of the bits I missed when sitting underneath. I think I will paint round the undersides of the coamings etc whilst it is still upside down.

Hopefully not far away now.

[Clem Freeman]

Don't gas yourself whilst underneath!

[Anthony Huggett]

Regarding the level of the waterline, the advice in one of Matt's Appendices for the BR is to allow the line to go up a bit towards the stern, otherwise it looks wrong.

I think you can see how that looks in this picture. http://www.swallowboats.co.uk/images/stories/swallowboats/bayraider/newport_bs_2011.jpg
The waterline is actually part way up the bottom panel, but the paint line has been lifted to meet the first chine line at the transom. Something similar may be necessary on the T12.

[Julian Swindell]

Many people say you should raise the waterline towards the bow and stern. It does look good, but it has to be done well and is not easy. It needs to be a curve, not a straight line. Couple that with the changing shape of the hull, whose sides are fairly vertical at the front, rounded in the middle and possibly close to horizontal at the stern, and it is really hard. That's why I have always stuck to a pretty straight line, which doesn't look so good, but doesn't draw attention to itself either.

[Michael Rogers]

Hmmm, thank you, Anthony and Julian. It all sounds a bit complicated to me, and because I don't actually NEED a waterline on my little boat, I'll put the idea on a back burner and revisit it nearer The Time, whatever and whenever that is. My build has stalled anyway (for reasons explained elsewhere, but I can't remember now which thread), so I have plenty of time to think about it. I asked for ideas about marking a waterline on the HBBR forum (that sentence is open to mildly comic interpretation and may not be as grammatically correct as I intended) as well, and got a helpful reply - boat dead level, pins, string, swapping strings across etc. It's all there, but under the 'eco' section of the HBBR forum because I got slightly lost (their webmaster may move it to the 'builds in progress' section at some point).

[Talking of webmasters, and knowing what my use of inverted commas will look like on this post, I wonder if there is ANY chance of this forum being rid of the plague of ////////s which disfigure all our attempts to write elegantly and fluently?! Just a thought, with a tinge of exasperation.]

Your comments about your (= Daisy Grace's) waterline, Julian, had me searching elsewhere for pictures of your lovely boat. I think I see what you mean. The eye does funny things, doesn't it. Did you know (said he boringly) that the centres of the 'horizontal' lines at the top of the columns on the long sides of the Parthenon are actually about 9 ins above horizontal, otherwise they would appear to sag in the middle. (Clever lot, those Greeks, perhaps they were good at waterlines on their triremes etc as well). Matt advises tapering the T12's gunwale slightly at both ends, which he says greatly improves the appearance - presumably a similar sort of effect. Actually, I won't be doing that because I plan a rope fender round the gunwale which I obviously can't taper. Which brings me back to my faux antifouling, which is where I came in (and which I think would go well with the rope fender) ... and so on, round the mulberry bush.

Michael

[Michael Rogers]

Ahem.     PS The offending thingies on the forum are of course s, not ///////s. Apologies for the error.

[Steve Joyce]

Thanks Clem, fortunately I have survived.  Think I have stumbled on a better way to paint the inside though,  so much easier than trying to do it with the boat upright and apart from an un-intended contact between head and centreboard case,  much more comfortable.

[Michael Rogers]

I'm reviving this thread because - having started it way before any wisdom in it could be of immediate relevance to my build, and having been held up since by non-fitting parts - the time is not far off when I will need to buy in my paint etc. I am a great believer in learning from others' experience, and even mistakes if they are willing to share them!

Have any of you who have two-pack painted any comments to pass on? Steve, on balance how would you summarise your experience? And, incidentally, what about this painting-the-inside discovery of yours?! - does it work, and how did you do it?

I've come across a smallish paint company called HMG, based in Liverpool. Has anyone out there used any of their paints? They have a website like Fort Knox with passwords, which they dish out, needed just to look. They have a HUGE range of finishes, including marine stuff, which they rate highly ("It must be good, even the adverts speak highly of it", as an old lady remarked in years gone by). They combine lots of incomprehensible technical terminology with an apparent reluctance to provide handy info such as who stocks their paint and how much it costs. Their so-called "On-line Shop", reached via Facebook (whither I have never ventured before) is a joke. Funny (peculiar) way to try to sell paint, but I might look further into it just in case it's good value.

Incidentally I have ditched two ideas for my boat, which came to me when I had too much time to think rather than get on, and which I aired on this thread. One is a rope fender (too fiddly, and surprisingly expensive); the other my faux antifouling - effectively two-colour painting involving establishing a waterline, which you have collectively persuaded me is not easy to do on a small boat, and which would have worked out more expensive. However I am developing some ideas on rubbing strips which I can outline if anyone's interested.

[Steve Joyce]

Hi Michael,  sounds like the build is progressing now.  Hope all of your parts are fitting together well.
HMG paints in Liverpool.. hmmm.  I wonder if its a case of "any colour you like as long as it's matt green or battleship grey"?

re two pack paints,  mixing even small amounts wasnt a problem.  They are a bit smelly but that soon wears off.  Applying with a brush was at best difficult.  The paint is very thin in the pot but very quickly gels making it hard to keep a wet line.  If you have to brush it,  applying with a roller and quickly going over lightly with a brush gives a reasonable finish although you can see it is brush painted.  Doing it again I think I would hire some spray equipment.  Having used enamels on a canal boat before it was much easier to get a very smooth finish with a brush so if I was doing it again I think I would stick to these.

As for painting the inside I just found it easier to sit under the boat supported on stands rather than stretching to paint the bottom planks.  the main advantage was being able to ensure that the parts you cant normally see get some paint.  I imagine that the bigger the boat,  the greater the back pain saved.

Have you got any pictures on your Trooper?

[Andrew Denman]

Michael and Steve,

You can get really good results with two pack rolling and tipping.  Most two pack paints are designed for spraying and , as you have found out, they set up really fast and it is hard or nigh on impossible to maintain a wet edge.

A lot of two packs can be rolled/tipped successfuly if you use a thinner that will retard or slow the cure so the paint will flow out.  Talk with your paint supplier or manufacturer about this. Some two packs are specifically designed for brushing and this is how they achieve it.

for some techniques have a look at http://youtu.be/ZgttasrdEvc

If you have enough paint on the boat, you can always wet sand with 1500grit/2000 grit wet and dry paper and follow up with a cut and polish compound to get rid of the brush marks.  Bit more work but a spray like finish.

regards,

Andrew

[Steve Joyce]

Thanks Andrew,  I think I just need more practice.

[Michael Rogers]

Andrew, your comments, as always, are helpful. A logical extension of the approach outlined in your final paragraph might be to roll an extra top coat on, without bothering too much about tipping with a brush (for any of the top coats?), and then finish off as you suggest. Drawbacks would be extra time and extra cost (a bit more than the traditional ha'p'orth of tar), arguably both worth it in the long term. However I'm not really in a position to comment further until I've actually had a go at this two-pot stuff! A few weeks down the line still, but I'm getting there. I was reflecting the other day that, with at least some of the 'skills' involved in kit boat building, you don't get more than one (sometimes two) goes at it, and you'd do it better the next time which won't happen, at least with this particular boat. This being my second build, some of the learning curves haven't been as steep as they would otherwise have been.

Steve,  your very reasonable request for pics of my build was bound to come from someone! It fills me with a kind of panic because I haven't mastered the electronic faffing involved, which makes me feel a bit silly compared with all you younger-sters. However, I'll try: don't hold your breath, but watch this space.I MUCH prefer boat-building to IT.

[Steve Joyce]

Youngster?  Thanks Michael,  not been called that for a long time.

[Michael Rogers]

I started this thread way back, when in some ways I had no real reason to. For various reasons my build (Trouper 12) has taken much longer than I had planned or hoped. However I am now painting - at last.

Like Steve I'm using Jotun two pot paints, and it's been interesting. Using information I picked up from the (very helpful) people at Shepherd Marine (who sell Jotun), this forum and the HBBR forum, I've worked on the principle of adding 10% thinners and putting lots of coats on, mainly with rollers, without too much concern for the smoothness of the finish; and then taking back with fine sandpaper to get a smooth finish. With the Penguard epoxy primer that was 4 coats on the bottom and decks, 3 inside the hull, and using mainly 600 grade paper. It's worked a treat.

The Hardtop AS (high gloss) on the bottom and HB (semigloss) on decks and inside is in progress. There are 5 coats of AS on the outside of the hull, and I'm doing the decks etc now (probable three coats planned0, before getting down to the final finishing. Alternating between the two, as one must with turning the boat over, means that each stage when finished has a week or so to cure before being finally finished off (see below). Quantities, in case this helps others to work this out - for my beamy 12 footer, 5 litres of primer and 2 1/2 litres of each of the colours, plus the relevant primers (which are different), has been just enough, including doing the rudder, dagger board etc. Colours - I chose green for the hull (which has turned out a bit 'brighter' than the British Racing Green of my Storm Petrel, but I think will be OK): and 'light sand' for the semigloss (as I hoped, this turns out to be a rather pleasant cream colour). There is also some hardwood to be clear-coated - I'm going to use Seacoat.

One reason for reporting back is because I'd be grateful for some detailed advice about grades of wet-and-dry for the final stage. This is following Andrew Denman's advice (reinforced by someone on the HBBR forum with experience of it) to wet-and-dry smooth, and finally polish with T-Cut. I've never used wet-and-dry (I have had to use T-Cut on various cars over the years!). What grades should I use? - I know it comes in grit grades in the 1000s. Presumably one works with a bucket of water to hand, and frequent dipping? Any other tips from Andrew and other experts would be VERY gratefully received.

Just out of interest (or dis-interest, more likely), I abandoned my (rather silly) idea, floated somewhere earlier in this thread, of a waterline and faux-antifouling. Daft, that was.

Last year, somewhere in the Forum, I reported on problems arising from sharing my boat-building space with nesting swallows. They're back, and the first brood (four, same as last year) have just fledged. Prior to their arrival this Spring, I suspended a tarp as a false ceiling for them to function above, and me below. I managed access arrangements and flight paths which the swallows adapted to without complaining (to me), and we've co-existed very amicably. There were also long-eared bats last year using part of the building as a communal nursery: I haven't seen them so far this year (no, I did nothing to discourage them, which would be illegal and against all my instincts).

The rain has been something else.....

Michael