Swallow Boats Association?

[Jonathan Stuart]

Hi,

I am the proud new owner of the third BayRaider Expedition. When I collected the boat last week I made the mistake of asking Matt if there is an owners' association. His response was that there isn't but he would like there to be one if anyone is interested in forming one. I think that with so many of these wonderful boats worldwide an association would be a good thing and I would be happy to get involved.

Here are a few of my ideas on what an association could be about but these are just my thoughts to kick-off a discussion:

* Aim of promoting and supporting the use and enjoyment of all Swallow Boat's designs.
* Rallies & other social events.
* Web site: information about the boats, articles, news, forum, etc.
* Regular publication (This can be a real strength for any association but also raises a challenge to get enough material for each edition, so perhaps this is web based rather than printed and articles are published on a web site on an ongoing basis?)
* Technical support.
* Local groups.

So, what do other people think? Is there any interest in an association, what should an association do and does anyone have the time to get involved?

Thanks,

Jonathan

[Julian Swindell]

I would strongly support this. There are so many Swallowboats dotted about the place now it would be great to try to link them together. This forum is great, but it would be better to have more than just the forum. Articles on where people have sailed, or what they have done to their boats are always interesting.

Let me know how I can help

[Andy Dingle]

Hi all..

I remember saying this to Matt too when I picked up my Bayraider some four years ago. Matt obviously was keen on the idea, but said he was very reluctant (for obvious reasons) to start one and administer it.

The idea of an association is inevitable I think, with the amount of boats now built and spread worldwide and is an excellent idea, but, the task of taking this on is fairly onerous I think, and extremely time consuming.
In my experience with these things they soon become a chore rather than an enjoyable experience. It will, I presume, be necessary to appoint Commodores, Secretaries, Treasurers, auditors, guys who can manage a web site, etc ad nauseum. Tho' the AGM's could be had combined with a rally (or raid) with a great time had by all - apart from the guys who have to organise it all of course!

That said, as I am considering (only considering at the moment, so don't get too excited Matt!) getting a BayCruiser - 20 or 23, not sure which. I would wholeheartedly support the venture - but as I spend over half the year abroad (am in Hong Kong as I type this), would be retiscent about offering too much commitment.
Local SwallowBoat 'raids' held at different locations around the country sounds extremely attractive to me!

Great idea .. and thanks for raising it.

Andy
BR20 No 12 Psalter

[Colin Morley]

Count me in

[Johan Ellingsen]

Hello all,

My CBL is not yet in any sort of order,and it´s too late anyway this year,BUT-
is anybody interested in a modest Swedish archipelago event in 2013?

A good time would be late July-early August,maybe starting from the Sw.C.Club
harbour at Malma Kvarn outside Stockholm(check Google Earth)and having a combination island-hopping and gastro-pub-crawling few days.I would love to
help with this.

Johan

[Julian Swindell]

Hi Johan
Great to hear from you. This sounds a wonderful idea. As you know, we always fancied sailing the Baltic, and this might just get us there. Let's keep this on the boil.

Dare I ask how your boat is? I'm just waiting for the spring to arrive to get back on the water.

[Jonathan Stuart]

Johan - Sounds a great idea and I would certainly be interested in this.

Andy - I share your concerns. This clearly would involve work but if that effort delivers things for members - website, events, etc - then I'm happy to contribute. However, it is too easy for clubs/associations to generate too much work just to run and administer the association. I'm not up for that and I think it can be avoided. And if anyone suggests we need a Commodore (presumably sporting a blazer with club badge) then I'm off!! Let's keep it simple with the minimum administration and structure necessary.

Julian - Thanks, I'll be in touch.

Anyone else got any thoughts...would be good to know if people think this is worthwhile even if you can't contribute.

Jonathan

[Colin Lawson]

Swallow Boats Association great idea

Commodore, Blazers, committee meetings, AGMs, bad idea

In the 21st Century, with modern ICT and the internet we should be able to organise and run an association with a minimum or even zero onerous stuff.

If everything was done on line, costs would be very small (no need to use paper or send anything in the mail) and hosting a web site would cost a nominal amount.  (There might be financial implications for some events/raids/rallies).

It would be interesting to research democratic structures that must already exist for on line collaboration. Ones that do not involve traditional committees and officers. I will volunteer myself to do some research and report back.

There is already a great deal of useful technical information in these forums but it is not always easy to find and one issue is sometimes spread over a number of threads. One solution would be to set up a Wiki in which we all shared the task of adding and editing information starting with the wealth of advice already in this forum.  The Wiki would then grow as part of a shared effort.

Could the association run with a similar ethos???

I look forward to reading more ideas.

Colin (Bayraider 20, yet to be named)

[Jonathan Stuart]

Colin,

I think you're spot on and I like this approach. A collaborative/community web site at the heart of the association would be ideal. That and organising events should where people's time is spent. If no-one has time for that then we don't have an association. We shouldn't be bogged down in unecessary admin....there should be just enough to enable the association to function.

As I understand it, a club/association isn't a legal entity and hence there are no rules governing how we should run (committee, AGM, etc), hence we can put something together that meets our needs. If most work is being done collaboratively by a number of contributors then the "committee" could be very small and just there to ensure the thing runs, etc. A team of 3 (could be 5 as a maximum, but I prefer 3) should be fine.

Let us know what you find from your research.

I am happy to have a look at options for Wikis and content management systems, etc, for the web site and report back, although if anyone has any thoughts on this then feel free to pitch in.

[Julian Swindell]

Just a few thoughts.
Commodores, flag officers etc. are not for me or any of us I expect. But they are the products of racing sailing clubs and I don't think that's what we are about. I have said to Jonathan that we could look at something like the Drascombe Association. Aimed at putting people in touch and sharing the pleasure of their boats.

http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk

You do need a bit of formality. I run a website for the Winkle Brig users which I started myself when I had one. I would really like to pass it on to someone else, because I haven't owned one for several years now, but there is no association to pass it on to, so I am rather stuck with it.

http://www.jegsweb.co.uk/boats/winklebrig/winklebrig1.htm

You also need to be aware of the Data protection act. If personal information is stored, such as peoples' names and addresses, you do have to comply with the act regarding security of that Data. A formal structure again helps sort that out.

I think we would have to be primarily electronic, it makes life hugely simpler. I suspect that nearly all of us have access to the web, but Matt should know if there are any original owners who do not. If there are any owners who want to join but don't have web access, we may be able to arrange to print things off, but I would prefer to say, its all on line, please get on line if you want to join.

I'm up to help with any of it, and an inaugural rally in the Baltic would be fantastic!

[Jeremy]

As a model of a non-association that works well, with no committee, membership, finances etc you could do worse than emulate the HBBR (see here: http://ukhbbr.wordpress.com/).

The events are fun, the atmosphere is always relaxed and best of all, there are no politics!

[Julian Swindell]

That is a very good link. I had forgotten about the UKHBBR. That could be a veyr good model. The Drascombers do get very political for some reason.

[Jeremy]

That is a very good link. I had forgotten about the UKHBBR. That could be a veyr good model. The Drascombers do get very political for some reason.

in my experience all clubs and associations seem to suffer from politics to some degree, something I've always found a bit offputting.  The way the HBBR was set up removes all of that at a stroke, as it prides itself in being a non-organisation.  The words on the front page of the (bit out of date!) web site:

"There is no membership fee, formal organisation, or red tape. If you have read this far consider yourself a member. If you want to keep up with the gossip and chat between meetings, sign up for the forum."

pretty much sum up the way it works.  Events do get organised, usually in a cooperative and volunteer-type way and are always great fun.  There have been some fairly big (in HBBR terms) rallies and raids (the Thames Raid being perhaps the best example) and everything pretty much works with no need for rules, committees or subscriptions.

As a non-association the HBBR is fairly well recognised in the UK small boat world, so tends to get noticed by some of the magazines (I doubt an issue of Watercraft is ever published without one or other of the HBBR membership being in it, for example).  I'm sure the same would happen if something similar was set up for Swallow Boat owners - the attraction of being politics-free alone makes such an association (or non-association) more attractive to magazines etc when it comes to publicity, as there is less fear of upsetting someone.

Setting up a Swallow Boats Non-Association along the same lines would seem to me to be a fairly easy thing to do, all that would really be required would be a bit of web space and a small amount of work to keep it updated.  If this forum could be tidied up a bit, perhaps by updating it to a later version of the Simple Machines Forum software, to get rid of some of the quirks, then that might help as well.

[Jonathan Stuart]

I've just had a look at the UKHBBR site and that does look good. As you say, it seems to do what is required without any of the club overhead. I also like what the Drascombe Association does but notice there are 12 people on the committee and that approach causes me to shudder!

Julian made a good point that relying on one person could mean it will die when that person wants to move on unless a replacement can be found. So even if there's no formal association structure we should ensure there is more than one owner/administrator.

I will hold my hand up now and mention that I run an IT business and have plenty of web space and would be happy to register a domain and provide a site without any cost. Shall we do this and see what develops? If so are we calling this the Swallow Boats Association or does anyone have a more inspired idea?!

[Julian Swindell]

I would vote for Swallow Boats Association. I would also support making sure that all resources are on a specific website for the association with more than one owner. The Winkle Brig resources I mentioned in an earlier message are actually on my own website and I really would like to get rid of them, but can't find a way to do it.