Bilge pumps

[Michael Rogers]

I am thinking (only thinking, so far) about a Rule pump for my Trouper - the 360 or 500. To be honest, I'm not that thrilled about the idea of electrics (batteries etc) on such a small boat, but still: just musing, winter-evening-wise, at this stage. 

I'm certainly not planning a through-hull outlet, so the hose will have to be coiled somewhere inboard, and then the end chucked over the gunwale prior to operating the pump. No, I don't have a convenient outboard well! Through the tiller port in the transom is a possibility, although the extreme after end of the cockpit is not the best place for optimum water removal, installing the pump or housing the battery. My question is whether the pump will cope with a flat outlet hose - i.e. have the oomph to open up a flat hose by pushing the water through. It would presumably be the initial grunt to expand the hose which would be critical. It would be so much easier and neater to stow a coiled flat hose away. Incidentally  I'm right, aren't I, that there isn't an inlet hose as such on a Rule, the pump itself sitting in the bilge?

Anyone's practical experience (Rule of thumb - not very good, but couldn't resist) would be valuable. The alternative for my boat would be a small manual diaphragm pump. I had one on Cadenza (Storm Petrel), and a flat outlet hose was fine on that. Where to mount it would, as always, be the question. The Rule is amazingly small.

Any comments? Thanks in anticipation.
Michael          (Trouper 12 'Cavatina')

[Graham W]

Michael,

A lot of Swallow boaters use Whale manual pumps, especially the Urchin model - see http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,406.0.html It might be a bit large as a permanent installation on your Trouper.

The Rule electric pumps are very small and efficient. I have one which plugs into my existing 12v electrics for pumping out my BR20 water ballast tank when I'm stationary and can't therefore use the self-bailers. I'm fairly sure that it has enough oomph to open up a flat hose and it does indeed suck from its base. However, I wouldn't ever use it for the small amounts of water in my bilge as my permanently to hand Urchin does the job more quickly and efficiently. And if the electrics weren't already in place for my fishfinder, I wouldn't install them just for an electric pump.

[Michael Rogers]

Thanks, Graham, and for the useful link (with an intriguing reminder of voices from the past). Lots of good stuff.

Funny how one's attitudes change (and probably just as well, otherwise we'd all be opinionated bores). Until recently I would never even have considered an electric pump. However I read a DCA article by an intrepid cruising dinghy sailor, and subsequently e-corresponded with him, who has a Rule in his cruising Mirror (his boat has gaff rig complete with a dinky little topsail!). He briefed me on batteries etc. I usually sail alone, and the thought of flicking a switch and leaving the pump to get on with it is appealing (as I get less young?). Conversely, waggling the handle of a diaphragm pump while trying to get on with sailing, in what might well be tricky conditions, is one more multi-task. On my Storm Petrel (which was prone to shipping water), the manual pump handle was convenient to the normal helming position. In my present boat, that's not v practicable. Mind you, judging by Cavatina's dry-ness and stability in a considerable seaway off Kippford, in September, I don't think pumping large amounts is likely to be a frequent need, perhaps in contest to a Mirror (absolutely no disparagement intended). Anyway, that's my train of thought. Perhaps I should wait and see how I get on. One thing I have done is to fit a drainage bung in the transom, so emptying the boat ashore is now not a chore.

While assembling information, I shall have to admit my ignorance in another field by asking for advice about electric circuitry on a boat. Do all connectors, switches etc have to be waterproof? If not, what can one get away with? If they do, where's best to buy them? - e.g. Maplins? I looked at a few of the on-line chandleries, and I'd be forking out more than the cost of the pump + battery for the wherewithal to have a simple waterproof circuit!

Michael

[Guy Rossey]

Michael,
did you consider using a portable pump? I use since 3 years now the 'Attwood portable Power Pump' which is really simple and helpful for the intended use: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3les4bQeaF4.
(Price: 40,-€)
_____________________
Catchando Bay ( BR20 #48)

[Graham W]

Guy's suggestion is a good one - the Attwood pump's power supply is internal (3 x size D batteries) and could be rechargeable. The Attwood's base is much wider than that of the Rule pumps so you would need a flat area with a diameter of at least 6" as your sump.

If you decide to go down the Rule route, it's better if all switches and connectors are waterproof. I've survived for three seasons using CTEK comfort connectors, which are not waterproof but have done a good job up to now.  However, I've decided to swap over to these this winter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Way-Waterproof-Weather-Proof-Sealed-Electrical-Connector-KIT-12V-24V-DC-/180734625987  The cable seals come in three different diameters to cope with different wire sizes - make sure that you get the kit with the correct diameter.

[Michael Rogers]

Guy, what a great idea! It may be just the job, The flat bottom of the Trouper means that a suitable flat area isn't a problem, and it would stow neatly next to the mast step. It's a bit pricey, esp when you add on rechargeable batteries + a charger (I don't have either, unfortunately), but it's such a neat idea.

Looking at the reviews on Amazon (US), many are 5star ecstatic, but a number are from people whose pumps weren't waterproof and failed. I suppose the thing to do is to test thoroughly within the returns period.

Graham, thanks for the other info, which I'll 'file'. Much appreciated.

Michael

[Michael Rogers]

This may not be of general interest, but I'll bore you with it anyway.

Having done my 'research', I've decided to go for a Rule 360 pump, for two main reasons:

1) The customer recommendations (I know, should be used with a degree of caution) for the Attwood pump on Amazon US are quite interesting. There are lots of 5 stars, many of these being from people who want to pump puddles off swimming pool covers etc. However there is quite a crop of 1 stars as well. The main gripe is that the pump is not in fact submersible, and fails when water gets in. Also mentioned are flimsy components, esp the switch, and some loose wiring. One bloke used one intensively for about 10 years and was so pleased that when it finally gave up he got another - recently. It let water in, he had it replaced, the same thing happened. He suggested that his first one was made in the US, and that manufacture may since have gone to the far east, with poor quality control etc. Thinking about it, it's an extra ask anyway to maintain water-tightness when the battery compartment has frequently to be opened and closed.

2) Cost. The cheapest Attwood I can find is £58: that's before batteries, either disposable or rechargeable. For less than £30 I can get the Rule pump, a bracket with which it can be mounted, a suitable small 12V lead acid battery (which I can presumably recharge with my car battery charger), and a waterproof switch. I have not found any negative comments about the Rule; and I have worked out how I can do a neat installation with the battery inside and reasonably high in a locker, and the pump outside the locker less than 40 cm from the battery, and in the optimum spot for water removal.

So there's a small project for January, to help keep sail-withdrawal symptoms at bay.

(Yawn - ? - told you)

Michael

[Julian Swindell]

I have bought an electric bilge pump to help empty my stern ballast tank, which I can't pump dry because the extract pipe is connected to the fore tank, but I am pumping from the stern, so there is always quite a volume left in the stern. (Water flows downhill Matt). I can only pump dry if I stand a 20 stone gorilla on the fore deck, but he refuses to go sailing with me any more.

I bought the pump at a boat jumble. It looks exactly like a Rule pump but is unbranded, so I don't know where it really comes from. It only cost £13, and the stall by the entrance was selling them for £25, so I kidded myself I got a bargain. I have tried it to pump out a bucket, and it was amazingly fast. The idea is that I plug it in with a cigarette lighter plug, and lower it into the stern tank when I want to empty it. If it is pumping the stern tank and I am hand pumping the fore tank, it should take about five minutes. It claims to draw 2A and I have a nominally 20Ahr battery, so I should have plenty of power. Five minutes at 2A is just 0.16 Ahr if my arithmetic still works.

[Michael Rogers]

From your picture it looks just like a Rule pump, Julian. However, that's not a lot to go by. A firm called Securefix Direct (who do various bits-and-bobs in 316 s/s) sell a range of 'Ocean Secure' 12v pumps at prices from £8 -14 depending on their gallons per hour (GPH) rating, in exactly the same colour scheme as Rules, and with an identical sounding spec. I found them AFTER I had paid £17-odd for my Rule 500! I think Rules are still actually made in USA, the others are likely to be from China or wherever. No idea whether that makes a real difference.

I'm in the process of installing my pump, with a diddy 2.2Ah SLA battery. That should shift about 380 gallons (allowing for lift etc). I'm not sure how many gallons would fill my little boat to the gunwales (no good at judging volumes), but I think that'll do me nicely. I feel I have lost the 'purity' of my previous style of sailing by messing around with wiring , electricity etc, but it will be handy, especially if shipping water while sailing on my own. I must say it'll be a neat little set up.

The other 'essential' I didn't have last season but have now fitted is a drain plug in the transom.

Isn't it amazing how there is ALWAYS something else to do to 'improve' or repair ones boat. I, for one, would go not-so-quietlybonkers during the winter if that was not the case.

Michael