Going for a swim?

Matt Newland · 30 Jul 2007, 07:37

We are going to try and encorporate a step, a bit like an aeroplane winglet, in the trailing edge of the rudder, so as to form a step. In shallow water sailing it will be out of the water as the rudder floats reasonably high.
This will allow re boarding by climbing up the rudder.
I will post some photos as soon as I have tried and tested it.
Regards,
Matt

Guy Briselden · 05 Sep 2007, 20:41

With reference to Matt's last post about the "aeroplane tail" step on the rudder - I am now the very proud owner of BR3 where he has tried it out, so I have tried to post a picture of it, in the up, raised out of the water position (Apologies if it doesn't work - my first attempt at attaching a photo!). It seems to me to be a very practical solution, it is fixed in position so you cant forget it or move it out of reach, etc. It is stable and solid, with the handhold of the mizzen base it gives good leverage, interested in your thoughts.

Leo Colsell · 03 Nov 2007, 09:27

This is how I have tried to cope with the problem of getting back into my Storm 15: a couple of small steps epoxied to the stern post. This might interfere with the hydrodynamics, but that is not an issue for me. As you see, this was done before painting - the final coat will have to wait till Spring now. The theory is that one grabs the rudder, gets a foot onto one step, and with the other on its mate, stands up grasping the gunwales; after which it should be a doddle to get a leg in. Great theory; my widow will post a mail if it doesn't work.

Leo Colsell · 03 Nov 2007, 09:39

Sorry, this is a second attempt to show the steps on the primed hull.

Craic · 22 Nov 2007, 09:44

Leo,
great idea, well carried out. Hope it'll work just as well.

This is a great thread, very practical ideas popping up.

I have another idea to offer: Bolting a ready-made hinged mast-step (http://www.awn-shop.de/MAST-STEP_-_Maststufe/0310257/produktdetails.html) to the rudder / rudderhead. Costs around GBP 17.00 .

I have done that for 'Craic' now, as an additional second step, because her transom is so high. It's bolted to the stainless steel rudderhead about 5" above the waterline level. It's made from sturdy plastic, and has a tight fit when hinged up, so doesn't rattle when under engine. When folded up, it is so small it goes practically unnoticed.

Julian Swindell · 15 Jun 2008, 21:35

My first post to this forum, so I hope it works. This is an old but good thread. A couple of points I have once raised on the Drascombe forum. It is possible to climb up a small rope ladder if you really have to, but it is not comfortable. Cave explorers climb vertical rope ladders by putting a leg round the back of the ladder and pushing a heel back onto a rung. This means the lower end of the ladder hangs down between your thighs. Then put your other leg round the other side and push that heel into the next rung. A bit like climbing a rope. Not fun, not elegant, and really tricky next to a boat hull, but it does work. There is no real solution to tipping the boat towards you if you try to climb up the side, so you really need to get in over the back.

My Winkle Brig has a small narrow transom ladder permanently bolted to the stern and it is really simple. I get in and out with it all the time.

I do not currently have a Swallow boat, but I had a sail in a Bayraider at Beal Park and I am now drooling over the Baycruiser. Just have to convince my wife...

Tony · 18 Jun 2008, 00:30

Hi, Julian.
I envy you your little ladder! Im the proud owner of the Cardigan Bay Lugger, Four Sisters. Being a double ender, getting in over the stern is a bit problematic. Ive tried most things but am reluctant to put my full 12 stones (...er...perhaps with a leetle bit more for luck...) on the rudder pintles. My wife and I are towing her out to Greece again this summer so I will try out a few other ideas once in warmer water. I will keep you posted.

Yes. The Bay Cruiser! Probably have a lot more room inside than the CBL and with the Bay Raider sail plan, variable water ballast ...and, of course, transom, will be a very desirable package. A real alternative to ageing Drascombe longboat cruisers or over-weight trailer-sailers. I have a friend with a Parker 21 who wouldnt dream of towing it far -much too heavy- but is getting bored with the same old cruising grounds every year. Should suit him very well.
Point of interest:- Ive towed the CBL across Europe for the last two years using my 2litre Subaru Impreza Sport. Strange thing is the petrol consumption doesnt seem to go up much when Im towing. The Scooby doesnt seem to notice that the boat is there at all! Is it that motorway cruising is that much more efficient?.... that double ended boats are just as slippy in air as in water? (in comparison the car is as streamlined as a house brick)...or just that I dont lead-foot it as much when Im towing? All very strange.

Julian Swindell · 18 Jun 2008, 12:17

Hi Tony,
I would think that the rudder pintles are probably strong enough even for 12 stone... I think the Bayraider now has built in steps on the leading edge of the rudder so it can be used as a ladder. I have seen a dutch yacht, with a huge barn door rudder, which actually had steps up the rudder blade to act as ladder, which I thought was quite neat (picture below I hope).
I have got a Subaru Forester, which makes an Impreza seem really streamlined. What I have noticed over the last few weeks is that now I am driving up and down to Poole at low speeds to save expensive fuel, I get there in the same time and my fuel costs have actually gone down despite the hike in fuel prices. As you say, all very strange.

PS I have nearly convinced my wife about the Bay Cruiser...

Julian Swindell · 18 Jun 2008, 13:46

Below is another idea for what I think is a rather refined home-made set of steps for a Winkle Brig in France, posted on the Winkle Brig Forum. Again, it works on a transome. Getting back into a double ender is really quite a problem still looking for a good solution.

Tony · 08 Feb 2010, 01:17

Hi Julian.
Glad to see you are fitting a ladder to the BCs stern - vital safety precaution, let alone a swimming aid. I wouldnt trust a telescopic job myself....no evidence or experience of them, just predudiced against something that possibly MIGHT jamb when most needed.

Have any other double-enders out there solved the re-boarding problem yet?

I have reverted to the old rope ladder (hard treads) tied to the cabin top grab handles. It works better now I have lashed a large fender to the step that is normally about 6 inches below the waterline. the boat still heels alarmingly but the extra bouyancy - and clearance from the hull - is just enough to enable a really determined/scared person to wriggle and grunt their way back on board. This, obviously, takes time to dig out of a locker and set up so is only useful for deliberate swims. No use at all for emergency single-hander overboard stuff.
Thinking of cobbling up something using an inflatable life jacket mechanism and a drogue, arranged to pull overboard from a trailing line. The idea being to give you a step up AND stop the boat sailing on. The Four Sisters CBL will track for miles if I stiffen up the tiller with shock cord - as I tend to when single handed, for ease of rolling cigarettes, making coffee, etc.
Anyone have a better idea? (Apart from giving up Fags and Coffee, of course.)

Julian Swindell · 08 Feb 2010, 07:54

1:17 am? Don't you ever go to bed? Or are your posts delayed?
Have you tried rigging your rope ladder right at the stern on one side? You would be nearer the centreline of the boat so it might not heel so much.
I have my doubts about telescopic ladders, but I saw them in use on powerboats at the London boat show. Several boats had them mounted right at the bow. They were stowed flat on the foredeck, hinges forward. When needed they were slid foward, flipped over the bow and extended. They seemed surprisingly strong. I think they were meant to be used to get off onto a pontoon rather than right down into the water.
I also thought on looking at my boat that it would actually be easier to fit a ladder on the side at the stern. The overwhelming problem is that it would look really weird. Still puzzling it out.

Julian Swindell · 09 Feb 2010, 11:02

I have decided to fit a telescopic ladder and have just ordered the four step version. I have a cunning plan for propping it out at the right angle from the transom. If it works I will publish the result here. If it doesn't, I shall deny authorship of this post...

Julian Swindell · 11 Feb 2010, 21:42

I have got the ladder and am very pleased with the quality. Very solid. I am going to mount it on a small raised platform on the stern deck, so it can be stowed on the deck and flipped over to project down into the water. Will have to experiment to see if that can be done from the water, or if a heaving rope of some sort will be needed. I have suggested to Matt that for new boats, such a ladder could be offered as an option, with the top of the transom being lowered where the ladder is, so that it can just be stowed on the rear deck. The photos show a dummy platform in MDF. I will build a final one in ply, screwed to the rear coaming, so no holes are needed in the transom.

Tony · 20 Feb 2010, 22:08

Hi, Julian.
Replying at..um.. 9:45pm... Maybe I should wait a little longer to maintain my reputation for insomnia?
Yes. I like your stern ladder arrangement. Looks very tidy... and if can be made to deploy from overboard would be a great comfort to the more amphibious sailor.
I have two questions - not especially aimed at your good self:
1.

Tony · 20 Feb 2010, 22:16

Sorry. My over-affectionate cat just trod on the keyboard again.
I'll have another go.

Ahem!
I have two questions:

1. What happened to the 'step built into the rudder' idea?
2. Would my idea of a sort of mini sugarscoop stern for the Bay Cruiser solve more problems than it creates - or is it just too ugly?