Swallow Yachts Association

Can anyone offer advice about a suitable tablet for Navionics, please?
There are plenty of earlier threads, but the iPad is more of a contender now, as it claims to have sunlight-readable brightness.

Current options appear to be
- Sailproof.  robust, sunlight-readable screen but average resolution, Quite pricey.
- iPad Pro. needs a case, allegedly 1000nits excellent screen, epic cost.
- Samsung Galaxy tab (like s9). waterproof, good screen only 750nits, cheaper option.

I was looking at Sailproof, but a more 'normal' tablet would be generally more useful. 

Is Samsung's 750 nits insufficient to see in daylight (not necessarily bright sunlight)?

The new ipad boasts:
SDR brightness: 600 nits max
XDR brightness: 1,000 nits max full screen, 1,600 nits peak (HDR content only)

I have no idea if XDR brightness is something the Navionics app can make use of. Is this a lot of money for a tablet that will only work at 600nits?

Also, given how expensive Apple memory upgrades are, will 128GB do? Navionics claims 150MB footprint, plus ~2-4GB RAM requirement.

Finally, the ipad is now available in 11" and 12.9" screen sizes.  Does anyone have experience of mounting these on a BR20? Perhaps they are just too big for a small dayboat.

Thoughts gratefully received.

I use a Samsung and it's fine.

I'm afraid I don't know which is best, but we have been running Navionics from an iPad for years (initially on the smaller size, then on the larger one) as that is what we have for other things. We decided not to mount them, but have an overboard case and use the strap to attach them to the boat. It's currently running off my 64GB iPad and that seems absolutely fine. Any issues with available memory are caused by my daughters endless photos and videos of our cats rather than Navionics!

Thanks, Nicky. Really helpful to know the standard iPad is a realistic option. Using a case and strap is probably a better option for me, too.

Is your case a soft one? I've used aquapac for years with my phone and  find the touch screen can be very compromised in some circumstances.

I would suggest you look at your current environment for mobile devices. Are you an apple person or an android person.

The UI's are quite different. People have sold their android tablet ( for use on the boat) to move to an apple device simply because all their other devices are apple.

XDR stands for Extreme Dynamic Range, a term used by Apple to describe displays with higher contrast and brightness than standard dynamic range (SDR) and high dynamic range (HDR). Note the brighter the screen the more current it uses however it is independent of the app you are running.

I have a sailproof and it works brilliantly in sunlight etc. You need at least a 1000 NITS for bright sunlight so if it is going to be fixed bear that in mind. If you are going to hold it in your hand then its is not so important.

Sailproof is a normal tablet and I do use it outside the boat but it is difficult to hold due to the large battery. I have the smaller screen.

I've had a Sailproof 10" until recently and now have an iPad Pro 11" M4.  I bought the latter because my old iPad was defunct and yes, going for this particular version with its bright screen was extremely expensive.  With the new iPad, I no longer needed the Sailproof as well, so I sold it.

In terms of brightness, the Sailproof and iPad at 1000 nits are the same but the iPad's screen has noticeably higher definition and better contrast.  Both are easily viewable in very bright Greek sunlight.  Despite having a smaller battery, I think that the iPad lasts quite a bit longer before needing a recharge.  On the downside, it doesn't have the Sailproof's facility for swapping out batteries.  As with the Sailproof, the screen can be switched off to save the battery when not needed (while out on the open sea for example) while Navionics continues to work in the background.  My iPad came with the lower spec of 256GB of memory and 8GB of RAM, which is more than enough for anyone to do anything unless they're in the design or gaming business.

The iPad 11" has a bigger screen than the Sailproof 10 but the tablet is smaller and significantly lighter.  I've bought a waterproof and shockproof hard case for when I take the iPad out on the boat but at the moment I'm using what they call a smart case for indoors.  When fitted, the hard case will make the iPad larger but not much heavier.  I'm not keen on soft waterproof cases.

I'm going to make a slip-in wooden mount, angled at a fixed 45° and attached to a cannibalised Garmin pivoting bracket.  This will be installed at the aft end of the centreboard case, where my Garmin fishfinder used to go, so that the iPad can be faced in different directions when changing tack.  At the front end of the centreboard is a multiplexer that can broadcast NMEA depth data from the transducer to the iPad, something that Navionics can display.  The iNavX app can display a whole lot of other NMEA data as well, in addition to sending waypoint data the other way.

I thought that the 13" iPad was much too big for a BR20, not to mention being too expensive.  It might however look rather nifty mounted on the aft face of a BayCruiser's cabin bulkhead.

I've always used Apple software and like the intuitive way that it works.  Android 11 on the Sailproof took some getting used to and wasn't as intuitive but once Navionics had fired up, it was very little different to the iPad version.

Overall, I prefer the iPad with its hard case to the Sailproof, even if it is quite a lot more expensive.  However if I hadn't had to replace my old iPad, I would have been happy to stick with the Sailproof for use on the boat. 

Don't forget that you can get significant discounts to Apple's prices by shopping around.  Refurbished iPads, even the new M4 versions, are often available at stores like https://www.musicmagpie.co.uk.

PS If you have good eyesight and can cope with the much smaller sized screen, the iPhone Pro Max from version 12 onwards has more than 1000 nits brightness.  The latest one has an eyeball-searing 2000 nits.  In addition, most of the newer iPhones are reasonably waterproof (IP68), unlike iPads.

Ours is a soft case, which was fine in our BRE, where we used to sling it into the cabin when we weren't using it. It's is also ok in our 23, although we don't use the iPad as much now as we have a permanently mounted screen in the cockpit - not necessarily the choice we'd make again, but it's great for occupying out daughter as she looks at the charts and cancels the AIS alerts. In the open 20, I'd might go with a hard case for the iPad, as I guess it's harder to find somewhere out of the way to put it when it's not being used.

Mark

I've not much to add but just to say that I use the Sailproof SP10, which is very good if a little bulky, and have recently acquired a spare battery. I use Navionics successfully. I see that you have a BR20 so Graham and others can give better advice than me regarding whether to mount or not. I initially mounted the SP10 on the aft end of the centreboard case of the BRe but it received frequent attention from my size 11s so it's now on the cabin bulkhead which is far better. I use the ROKK Universal tablet mount which is good but not perfect as the tablet falls out if knocked - but you may regard that as a good thing (to prevent damage to the tablet). I therefore ensure the tablet is on a safety lanyard to stop it falling far or going overboard.

Willie

I find that Navionics works OK on all of my various devices. These are all Android, I refuse to pay iTax!
 i stuff is also all rather too fashionable and sexy for me, and having been raised generally on MS and Android while a works user. I have very unhappy memories of being forced to attempt to use simultaneously both OSs (early 90s?) of "in field" IT.

However Navionics is not my charting system of choice. My first choice is UKHO Admiralty raster format charts (each to their own?). This runs a subscription (via visitmyharbour.com) on a slightly elderly, lowish spec but very robust Samsung industrial cased tablet. Itself, often...in a waterproof case.  However, spec is such that this tab can't cope with much else in terms of progammes/apps!

Therefore my Navionics seems to work OK on very modest Android devices, including a Samsung phone (as "modern" as an S10 + !), and also on an elderly Tesco Hudl 2 tablet.
Navionics also worked on my 10 year old Raymarine fixed chart plotter (touch screen).

I've just succumbed to a black Friday "bargain" and upgraded this plotter, both in size and spec. The Navionics off the old plotter runs on this too, as well as Raymarines own "lighthouse" charting.
Primarily upgraded because I decided that I "needed" another fish finder type depth sounder. I like the logging capabilities on the Raymarine plotter sounders.

This plotter deliberately chosen as NOT touchscreen.
I've had issues with wet hands/gloves (even with waterproof outer case removed on industrial tablet),  and heavy weather,  making control via touch screen difficult in a wet/lively cockpit.
Maybe the Sailproof is OK? I've not tried one.
However that wouldn't appear to give me an integrated sonar...not with my very limited IT capabilities anyrate!

I have Navionics, iNavX and Memory-Map for All on my iPad and also had Navionics and MMfA on my Sailproof, back in the day.  The first two host vector charts while the last one is a raster specialist.  It has a deal whereby the complete set of 850 Admiralty charts for the British Isles (including HD quilted versions) can be had for only £25 a year.  They also do a similar package of Ordnance Survey maps.   I first came across them when installing very large scale chartlets of the West coast of Scotland, developed by Antares.

The Sailproof's touch screen is quite good in wet weather - as I found when some modifications led to a fountain of water coming up through my BR20 centreboard slot.

This lot do an Android-only NMEA app that can produce depth charts https://www.encodedsolutions.com/nmeainstruments.php.  I'm not aware of a similar app for the iPad.

Thank you all for the hugely informative replies, as always.  It's very helpful to know that little computing power is needed to support Navionics.

Andy, my query about the XDR setting on Apple devices was because I don't know how it is controlled by the app/OS.  I assumed it was based on content - if you are viewing something with a high dynamic range then it'll be enabled. I can't find out if Navionics will do this, or if it is activated by feedback from the light-level sensor.
I read your very interesting explanation of using a Kindle to view your speed/depth, etc. My 'vision' for the boat is to also create something like this, when time allows.  In the mean time, it seems with a suitable mux Navionics can display depth info next to the chart, which is really handy.

Currently having a boat with a bulkhead to attach things to is just an aspiration, so it sounds like a hard case is the way to go.  The Raymarine plotters look the business if you have somewhere to put them - I'd not realized they could support non-proprietary mapping.
Graham, which case did you opt for?  There's lots of choice but I'm not convinced they are all as sturdy/water proof as they claim to be.

If you mount your ipad on swivelling stand on the centre-board casing, you could add a counter-weight sticking out the back so that it was self-tacking

Quote from: MarkF on 24 Dec 2024, 09:44In the meantime, it seems with a suitable mux Navionics can display depth info next to the chart, which is really handy.

If you don't need a bi-directional multiplexer (Navionics doesn't use both directions), I can recommend one of these, made in Australia https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304107645287.  There's also a single port version for £10 less.  Both versions are tiny.

Quote from: MarkF on 24 Dec 2024, 09:44Graham, which case did you opt for?  There's lots of choice but I'm not convinced they are all as sturdy/water proof as they claim to be.

This one - it gets good reviews in the US, where it has mostly been sold up to now https://www.amazon.co.uk/Generation-Protector-Waterproof-Shoulder-Full-Body/dp/B0D72HVN2M/ref=sr_1_9.

Quote from: MarkF on 24 Dec 2024, 09:44If you mount your ipad on swivelling stand on the centre-board casing, you could add a counter-weight sticking out the back so that it was self-tacking

Don't tempt me!  Alternatively, I could mount it on a motorised model railway turntable.