BayRaider - Early Impressions

[Craic]

David,
the helmsmans bags you enquired, I found them.: http://www.svb.de/segelboot+decksausruestung/reling+bootsstuehle/relings+zubehoer/relingstasche.html

If you cannot order them from UK, I would be happy to help buying them for you and mailing them on to you.

[Craic]

Those bags above, what you cannot see in the photo: in their back they have three flaps with Velcro so they can be fastened with no further ado around that little railing on either side of the BR cockpit, anywhere there.
The bags are well suited for holding VHF, binocular, knife, little stuff and refreshments within reach of the helm.

[David]

Thanks Claus I have orderd four. I will have to fix a railing on either side of the BR cockpit as it is not on the ply BR.

David

[Craic]

About that Mizen sheeting again.: If you look at a few photos of  standard sheeted BRs taken in windier conditions, you can see the leech of the mizen sail pretty slack and flapping while the luff is tight. This can be expected with a spritboom, and this is what I can avoid with the conventional boom and the different  sheeting arrangement, and even without an additional kicker.

[Craic]

Sorry,
I wanted to say the FOOT is tight.

[John Trussell]

Sorry,
I wanted to say the FOOT is tight.

My experience has been that a sprit boomed leg of mutton sail sets better if the foot angles up from tack to clew (as it does on the sails for the Storm 17).  This allows more nearly equal tension on the foot and the leech.  A sail with the foot cut at more or less right angles will set better with a conventional boom or if the snotter is raised on the mast, making the angle between the mast and the sprit boom more accute (and requiring a slightly longer sprit).

I am very fond of sprit booms because they are easy to sheet, they give great control over the curvature of the sail with low tech hardware, and they are self vanging.  Other experienced sailors have other preferences.  If something works for you, enjoy it.

JohnT

[Craic]

John,
you are very right with your comment in general, but things on the BayRaider in particular are really different from the norm because of the extreme mizzen sail stern overhang.
Do look at the different geometries yourself.
I put the photos in as proof to show that on the BR the standard spritboom sheeting alone does not work too well in some wind.

[Tony]

Hi, Claus.
Just a comment. Ive never had the leg o mutton mizzen flap on the CBL- unless  I was pinching up into the wind  and I failed to sheet in hard.
The difference could be that my simpler mizzen is laced to the mast, not in a pocket (or sleeve).  This might set more taught, if less well from the aerodynamic point of view.
Sheeting arrangements are basic. A single sheet is cleated at the tiller and runs from the rudder head to the sprit boom. The only mod Ive made is to move the sheeting point to the very end of the sprit (makes it easier to roll the sail away) and to double the length of the sheet (enabling the mizzen to be de-powered – weather cocked - even with the wind from astern.)  As the CBL is a double ender there isnt a simple way to fit twin mizzen sheets, so backing the mizzen involves grabbing the sprit and hauling it over by brute force.  This is also useful for annoying the racing boys by sailing backwards off the club pontoon after a lunch stop parked head to wind. The  manouver is completed by the lug main being raised and backed, spinning the boat around. Sheet in the mizzen and off you go!

What I like best about your gooseneck and boom ( intend stealing most of your good ideas, by the way) is that you could de-power  and power up the sail again instantly with a topping lift or brailing line. Very useful in tight moorings. If the boom can be raised to the vertical you also have a very quick method of stowing the sail, held between mast and  boom with a bit of shock cord.

Note:- Quick harbour stow = 1st to the Bar.

Cheers!
            Tony

[Craic]

Hi Tony,
I do not know if your Cardigan Bay Lugger is comparable with the BayRaider with regards to the mizzen stern overhang.

So I have done my computations with regards to the BayRaider only. By putting one additional sheeting footpoint centrally over the transom one improves the sheeting lever by around 40 %, and by using two blocks under the boom one gets additionally a 2 to 4-fold purchase.

Meaning, with some modest pull on the sheets one can bend the mizzen mast like on a windsurfer.

BTW, these lever, and force improvements would work just as well with the spritboom. They just result from the additional sheeting footpoint (fitting costs Euro 10.00) and the two blocks (Euro 10.00 apiece).

[David]

Hi Claus,
I was wondering what size your national flag is?  200x300mm or 300x450mm

Regards

David

[Craic]

Hi Claus,
I was wondering what size your national flag is?  200x300mm or 300x450mm

Regards

David

Hi David,
the size of the national in the photo above is 260x480 mm.
If your question is whether there are minimum sizes and formats required by regulations, I suspect there are but I have no idea. I am sure someone else here can help.

In the photo below are a few variations. Notice the red tell-tale, that is glued into a simple bamboo stick from a garden market. The Irish is really just a cheap souvenir flag picked up from a newsagent, works just as well.

BTW, we will be sailing in the Welsh Flotilla at Morbihan, honoris causa the boat was built in Wales, and the Welsh Dragon flag I have for that is 900x1500mm.

Happy Easter.

Claus

[Craic]

Back to Early Impressions.:

I have the GRE version. The boat feels over-stable, but when you look at the speedo she's fast.
I find the rudder angle is too limited, she turns a bit slow in tight places, but doesn't get stuck which is good. A few more degrees of rudder would help.

When the ballast tank is full and the rear vertical hatch is open, there is too much water on the cockpit floor for my taste when the boat is at anchor. I put in some suitable size fenders into the ballast tank until the cockpit floor is dry at equilibrium, much better like this. I am sure the self-righting is not significantly affected, maybe Matt can check his AVS tables.

When heeling the boat until the green water comes over the gunnel, the water on the side benches seeps into the storage compartments underneath. I have no better solution than avoiding too much heel, which is simple enough.

All else works fine, to a degree it's actually a bit boring. Once the sails are set up well, it's like riding on a bus, very little to do for the passengers. Some tiller and changing sides, that's it, no sheets need to be touched for miles.
What works particularly well is the self-tacking and the self-steering. I had actually put in fittings for a tiller-pilot but I never use that, the boat is so well behaved when she is heaved to and the main is slack. However, I recommend a tiller brake, simple to fit one onto the tiller.

[Craic]

... I would be very interested to hear more from Claus about what rig modifications for his Bay Raider he made, and why ...

Michael,
I have brought your question from the Storm Petrel thread here. Your underlying question probably is what I think about the rig size of the BR. In short, I think it's ideal, for small crew (2 aboard) and coastal sailing. All I modified was the mizzen sheeting, which was pretty obviously necessary. And I changed the main boom to carbon, but that is more a comfort detail. Otherwise, totally happy.

Only when we were in Italy with 3 experienced and keen crew aboard, and struggled a bit against these ligthwind lagoon boats there, came the wish to have some more canvas up at times.
For that I have got me an asymmetric foresail now, and I am currently preparing an option to be able to swap the SeaRaider rig (sport version) onto the BayRaider, just in case we should ever go back to Venice or attend an inland lake sailing event with that boat.

[Simon Knight]

I hope that this is the correct thread to post this question to. It seems the topice thread has mutated to a list of modifications that have been made to a BayRaider.  Any way, the question:

Have any Bayraider owners added some form of locking catch to the side lockers, or to put it another way do you think that a way of locking the lockers is desirable?

best wishes

Simon

[Craic]

I hope that this is the correct thread to post this question to. It seems the topice thread has mutated to a list of modifications that have been made to a BayRaider.  Any way, the question:

Have any Bayraider owners added some form of locking catch to the side lockers, or to put it another way do you think that a way of locking the lockers is desirable?

best wishes

Simon

Simon,
the reason why mods are collected here is that there were early impressions they were either missing, necessary, or would be useful.

Yes, my early impression was too that catches are missing on the side locker lids, so I fitted some, lockable ones.

What I havent found a proper fitting for yet is how to keep the locker lids opened while handling stuff therein.