Swallow Yachts Association on Facebook

[Graham W]

I just followed Matthew's Drascombe Facebook link and got this "You must log in to continue."  To me, that's just as bad as the Drascombe Association insisting that I pay to be a member to see some of their more interesting articles, and that I have to log in to see the photos on their site.  When I've done the latter, I often get a nannying-type message telling me that I'm daring to look at their site while not a member.

The advantage of this forum is that anyone can look at it, you don't have to log in, learn the secret handshake or roll up your right trouser leg and *gasp* you can even look at the photos without being spied on.

[Matthew P]

You could register yourself with a pseudonym such as Swallowboaty Mcboatfacebook if you want to sample Facebook without revealing your name to Foreign Powers.  But I suppose its illegal and Foreign Powers already know more about you than your Mum.

Matthew
BR20 McGladys
 

[Martijn]

I just followed Matthew's Drascombe Facebook link and got this "You must log in to continue." 

Matthew copied a link while he was logged in, it points to a page which requires login. This link points to the publicly accessible page: http://www.facebook.com/groups/drascombe/

[Julian Merson]

I just followed Matthew's Drascombe Facebook link and got this "You must log in to continue."  To me, that's just as bad as the Drascombe Association insisting that I pay to be a member to see some of their more interesting articles, and that I have to log in to see the photos on their site.  When I've done the latter, I often get a nannying-type message telling me that I'm daring to look at their site while not a member.

The advantage of this forum is that anyone can look at it, you don't have to log in, learn the secret handshake or roll up your right trouser leg and *gasp* you can even look at the photos without being spied on.

The only reason for drawing parallels between the Drascombe Association story and the current situation over here was due to, in my opinion, mistakes being made by the DA in not starting a FB page and noting the opportunity existed here not to make the same mistake.  It's disappointing, therefore, to read this post by a respected and long-standing member over here which is not just factually incorrect but involves being unfairly dismissive of our fellow sailors in the DA, many of whom share an affinity with both brands.

Just for the record, the DA has built up an enviable library of discussions through its forum, all of which are free to access by anyone - these are the equivalent of what I see on this forum, only the DA version has been going for longer and, as a consequence, has lots more content.  Behind the membership wall, you get a plethora of additional resources, since membership is chiefly about receiving a quarterly journal, these days amounting to around 50 pages per copy and including a wealth of technical advice and sailing reports.  Members also have access to pdfs of the entire library of magazines - around 140 of them.  Recently, members also received a bonus publication providing a wealth of updated information about their boats, and in its thirty year history, the DA has done this on a number of other occasions.  That's not bad for a sub which is less than most people would pay for their Friday night take away.  I don't think membership would be of interest unless one happened to hold an interest in Drascombes.  Their association, like this one, is run by volunteers doing their best when they could be out sailing, so let's not be condescending about the achievements of the DA.  In many ways, there's lots in both brands for the other to admire.  And, if they invite you to join, that's because it's in their interests to try and promote the brand and the Association.
In many ways, promoting the Swallow Yacht brand and the Swallowboat Association is what this thread is about.  These days, a younger audience accesses the Internet in a variety of ways, FB being one such way.  If we want someone to be around, one day, who values our boats when we finally hang up our oilskins, we would do well to keep the brand and the Association relevant to the younger generation.

[Graham W]

Matthew copied a link while he was logged in, it points to a page which requires login.
This link points to the publicly accessible page: http://www.facebook.com/groups/drascombe/

Thanks for the correction Martijn.  When I follow your link, I get access to "Discussion" but if I then try to follow any other heading, such as "Events", I get the message "Create an account or log in to Facebook to continue."

[Graham W]

Behind the membership wall

I rest my case.

[Rob Johnstone]

The idea of uploading a picture whilst sailing a smallish boat seems to me to be doing two almost incompatible things (but then my fingers are stiff these days as I approach a birthday that puts me near 80 than 70). Taken it to it's extreme - who is going to post the first live feed of a BayRaider capsize?   Or a BayRaider outsailing a Crabber? Or a BayCruiser 23 being attacked by a white shark? Or a BayCruiser 26 being sailed onto it's trailer?

I see we're part the way there for a like button has mysteriously appeared against each post. Are we going to compete for the most liked post? Will there be a league table of likes?

On a more serious note, the forum does provide (in my view) a rich source of technical information about the Swallow range and their good and not so good points (bloody trailers) which perhaps would be difficult to carry through to a Facebook site.  So perhaps there's a case for the Forum to remain the place for those sort of debates and information and Facebook could exist for those with a need for the visual (dare I say it, flashy) and social side of sailing.

Perhaps we should just take the capitalist approach, and have both. Let the market choose. It could be an interesting voyage.

[Jonathan Stuart]

On a more serious note, the forum does provide (in my view) a rich source of technical information about the Swallow range and their good and not so good points (bloody trailers) which perhaps would be difficult to carry through to a Facebook site.  So perhaps there's a case for the Forum to remain the place for those sort of debates and information and Facebook could exist for those with a need for the visual (dare I say it, flashy) and social side of sailing.

It's worth reiterating that Julian's suggestion is that any Facebook group would be actively moderated to ensure there isn't any replication of theis forum. The forum remains "king" but Facebook is an extra non-overlapping resource for those that use Facebook. And it would be irrelevant and in no way detrimental for those that don't use Facebook.

Julian made 2 other points that I think are also worth highlighting.

First, Facebook attracts a different audience. That is obvious from the comments in this topic. I've previously seen comments in this forum asking where the next generation of Swallow sailors will come from. If we have a Facebook presence then we spread the word about Swallows and hopefully attract more owners (perhaps also more younger owners) and more input in this forum.

Second, anyone can start a Facebook group. We're discussing whether to start a group that has a limited remit and redirects technical conversations, etc, to this forum. If somone else starts a group then we won't have that control.

[Graham W]

I'm not sure that it's our job to be the provisional wing of the Swallow marketing department.  They already have their own website, Facebook and Twitter pages, albeit not updated very often. 

If you young things want to go off and frolic in social media, and it seems that you do, I suppose that that is up to you.  However, unless Facebook is very rigorously moderated (and everyone always starts out with good intentions until life intervenes) it will be a clear dilution of the freely available effort here.   And effort there has been, including a number of long technical articles in the library that are free to browse without the aforementioned rolled up trouser leg.

This forum is fortified by the ability to look up virtually any Swallow topic under the sun (they've all been covered) using the excellent search facility. Random jottings on social media simply don't cut it in the same way.  But each to his own and I'm sure that Mr Zuckerberg will be very grateful.

[Jonathan Stuart]

I don't get the "rolled up trouser leg" references. Someone previously pointed out that the Drascombe Facebook site is visible to everyone, including those that aren't on Facebook. I suspect people who aren't Facebook members won't want to view the Facebook group, but it would be available and not hidden or restricted to members only. Only creating Facebook posts is limited to members. Also, Facebook is no place for long articles and that will always be the preserve of this website and, to a lesser extent, the forum.

I suggest we create a site and moderate it as discussed. I'm happy to create the site and be a moderator but it will need more than me. Who else is happy to share the moderation?

We will also need to agree the moderation "rules", which I suggest is something like: FB is for "of the moment" comments sharing news of a trip or a photo or a boat, etc, but posts relating to technical questions, formal events (other than just "I'm sailing in Weymouth tmmr, who wants to join me?") and "wanted / for sale" should all be linked to a forum post (preferably FB linking to the forum post but optionally vice versa).

[Peter Cockerton]

I'm sure a number of our Association members who are not FB members have concerns on joining FB because they have privacy concerns and do not know how to configure the account to restrict it to their wants and needs.
Perhaps a quick guide or link to a site could be created to help with this.

How would the "moderator" function work, e.g a post is put on FB that would be more suitable for the association site, does it get assessed before posting, does it then get moved to the association site, perhaps it is a mix of being suitable for both sites, does it get partitioned bye originator and reposted ?.

Who is going to adjudicate FB member request, how do we deal with unwanted trouble causing posts that are clearly made to lower the value of the site.

I have mixed feelings on creating a FB page for SB potential and current owners and it has merit on promoting our boats to a younger audience " assuming that is our role" and i suppose it is based on the time we give to people who approach us when rigging our boats.
The FB facility will provide the mechanism for posting "outing and holiday" snaps and tales  as long as it doesn't turn it "I'm on the bus " and " guess what I had for breakfast"  posts which before current association members throw there arms up in horror at the suggestion it's what younger new members might post judging on many other FB pages.

Peter C

[Jonathan Stuart]

Hi Peter,

I'm sure a number of our Association members who are not FB members have concerns on joining FB because they have privacy concerns and do not know how to configure the account to restrict it to their wants and needs.

Then they shouldn't join FB. There is no need to join FB just because a SY group exists there.

How would the "moderator" function work, e.g a post is put on FB that would be more suitable for the association site, does it get assessed before posting, does it then get moved to the association site, perhaps it is a mix of being suitable for both sites, does it get partitioned bye originator and reposted ?.

That needs to be decided if/when we have some moderators. I suggest we start with all new posts (not comments) requiring approval. I'm on FB groups like that and it works fine. I doubt the workload will be too onerous.

Who is going to adjudicate FB member request, how do we deal with unwanted trouble causing posts that are clearly made to lower the value of the site.

The moderators. Unwanted posts would be rejected and not published (assuming pre-approval of posts).

The FB facility will provide the mechanism for posting "outing and holiday" snaps and tales  as long as it doesn't turn it "I'm on the bus " and " guess what I had for breakfast"  posts which before current association members throw there arms up in horror at the suggestion it's what younger new members might post judging on many other FB pages.

I agree about the pointlessness of posts like that, but I see very little of that on FB and none of it in Groups where I'm a member. For example, I'm a member of a 2CV group and all the posts are pictures of people's cars, pictures of a nice scenic drive on a sunny day, technical questions and cars for sale. I would imagine a Swallow Yachts FB group would replicate the first two of those types of posts but the latter two should only be supported where they link to a forum post. i.e. "I've posted this on the forum but thought I'd share it here too...".


I can't see any downside in a FB group except a risk that if it grows then more people may ask technical questions. It's easy to reject those posts but people may not like that and someone can setup a new group that is more relaxed. I don't have an answer for that but if someone wants to setup a FB group then they'll do it anyway regardless of whether or not we setup a group.

[Sea Simon]

Imo...

The critical issue is the ready searchability and associated library/archives. This is an  invaluable and very important resource, both or new and established users alike.

Some other forums to which i belong have lost much technical valuein their haste to follow the crowd on to Facebook.
Facebook itself is old hat, so my kids tell me, and will doubtless be replaced by another fad soon enough?
Who remembers "Friends Reunited" for example? Arguably an ancestor of faceybox?

Oh, and also very importantly, on here there are no random russian ladies or nigerian bankers who want to be my friends.....and no ads either!

Summary. I can live with both, but PLEASE no Facebook at the expense of this forum.

[Sea Simon]

I don't get the "rolled up trouser leg" references.

That's information available on a need to know basis only!?

[Jonathan Stuart]

Absolutely agree Simon.

I should point out though that there are regular spam posts on this forum but they are stopped because all new members posts must be approved.

Coincidentally, I noticed this morning someone has posted a question on the DCA Facebook group that they also posted on this forum, so Facebook is having an effect already.