BRe Rudder/Tiller Improvements

[Ray S]

Happy New Year All!    How about an easy pre-season bit of fiddling?

Firstly; experience on three BRe's down here in Poole Harbour, Dorset is that the uphaul / downhaul tackle on the rudder can be quite heavy to operate and can appear to get heavier over time.  It's been found that all the bolts for the rollers and sheaves are located with fully threaded bolts. In one instance the bolt through one of the rollers was bent causing the roller to jam. More generally the threads cut into the sheaves so that they no longer rotate - causing unnecessary friction.  Replacing the fully threaded bolts with smooth shanked part-threaded bolts is a simple job and an ideal pre-season task!  The smooth shanked bolts are stiffer overall and allow smooth rotation of the sheaves.

Secondly, it was noticed that the top gudgeon/ pintle arrangement was getting sloppy on my boat (047 Whimbrel) causing unpleasant knocking to cascade up the tiller which somewhat spoils the sail.  Again the upper and lower pintles were found to be fully threaded M8 bolts and these were cutting into the gudgeons, most especially the top one. Nominally 8mm holes in the top gudgeon had opened up to nearly 10mm. I now have the new M8 smooth shanked replacement bolts and also have a 10mm diameter SS bush with M8 hole for the top mm bolt. Prevention being better than cure it should be easy for most just to replace the threaded bolts with the smooth shanked variety before problems like mine occur.

The bolts are DIN 931/ISO 4014 (the part threaded type) which I obtained very easily from the Westfield Fasteners Website. The website includes a table which indicates how much smooth shank you get for different bolt lengths which is very helpful.

RayS
BRe 047 Whimbrel



 

[Graham W]

Thanks for the warning Ray.  More checks to add to my already long pre-season list!  My BR20 rudder uphaul and downhaul have been getting progressively heavier, so fully threaded bolts may be the cause.

[Sea Simon]

For the pedants amongst us? 

https://www.fastenright.com/blog/bolts-and-screws-what-is-the-difference

I recall getting this battered in to me as an apprentice, but am still guilty of incorrect terminology!

Happy New Year!

[Ray S]

You're right - if I'd just use the words 'set-screws' for the fully threaded variety and 'bolts' for the partially threaded variety I'd have saved a lot of words. Whether anybody would have understood what I was talking about is something else!

Ray S
Whimbrel 047

[Ray S]

While we're on the subject - the 'set-screws' used for the rudder pintles on Whimbrel were of the slot headed variety, which is even more rubbish because you can't get a screwdriver in.  So replace these with hex-headed 'bolts'  Two Improvements for the price of one!

Ray S
Whimbel 047

[Matthew P]

I totally agree with  Ray S about the folly of using the threaded portion of bolts/set screws as bearing surfaces in moving parts.

On rudders I use drop-nose-pins which are smooth shanked and avoid spanner/screwdriver access misery to fit. The photos below show an ex-SB gudgeon fitted to another boat and is 8mm dia X 25 mm but check your dimensions before buying. 

See https://www.foxschandlery.com/seasure-316-stainless-steel-drop-nose-pin-8mm?ps=MTU4PTg4Njk=&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_c-OBhDFARIsAIFg3ew-8EcFDkvvHHXrQch29Vua_96b7fYpxuuuJ4pdbFYqS9W1fkfjVPcaAuTOEALw_wcB#158=8869 for examples

Matthew
BR17 Tarika

[Llafurio]

I too fully agree with Ray S.
But not so much with Matthews recommendation for dropnose pins to replace the original threaded rudder ' set screws'. The dropnose mechanism isn't 100% reliable. And besides the dropnose pins are very expensive.
I am using for many years  plain 8mm pins secured by a ring splint.

[Sea Simon]

IMO, it depends on if you want to retain the readily demountable function of the drop nose pin?

On my racing dinghy, having once lost my rudder (temporarily - thank goodness, the up/down hauls retained it!)
during a spectacular capsize, I used to add a "Split Ring" fitted thru the hole of the secured drop nose pin. In this case , the upper gudgeon pin was in the form of a drop nose pin.



40p - useful things...can of course also be used with "normal" smooth pins.

These are good quality
https://www.s3i.co.uk/split-cotter-ring.php?pid=14519&gclid=CjwKCAiA5t-OBhByEiwAhR-hm5Em2IjljwHcQsoV7AMAEnM5jPcys7f83a4ryq-KaZODBuTpZ7b1qRoCUJoQAvD_BwE

can be fitted without tools. I used to keep a red cable tie on it, so as to find it when dropped on the beach

[Matthew P]

it depends on if you want to retain the readily demountable function of the drop nose pin?

Drop nose pins facilitate rudder removal to shorten the over-all length of the boat to reduce ferry costs, avoid trailer length/insurance concerns, parking in sheds etc. although it takes a bit of grunting to lift and the twist the rudder and tiller assembly through the transom. And the mast has to be dismounted too.   

A drop nose pin on my Northeast[er] dory works really well and minimises boat rigging-launching time which is  truly expensive in terms of lost time-on-water.

It's true drop nose pins are not infallible but hopefully the risk of capsizing (yes, I'm a full member of the turtle club) causing demounting the rudder is small. More likely is the rudder running aground and pushing up on the pinions, although I've not heard of this happening. A circlip pin is maybe a good idea, and low cost.       

Matthew
BR17 Tarika
     

[Graham W]

the uphaul / downhaul tackle on the rudder can be quite heavy to operate and can appear to get heavier over time.  It's been found that all the bolts for the rollers and sheaves are located with fully threaded bolts. In one instance the bolt through one of the rollers was bent causing the roller to jam. More generally the threads cut into the sheaves so that they no longer rotate - causing unnecessary friction.  Replacing the fully threaded bolts with smooth shanked part-threaded bolts is a simple job and an ideal pre-season task!  The smooth shanked bolts are stiffer overall and allow smooth rotation of the sheaves.

Spot on!  Both bolts, screws, whatever through the two rotating parts of my rudder uphaul/downhaul mechanism were fully threaded and have been replaced with part threaded.  I can now raise and lower my rudder without getting a hernia.