Water Ballast in a BRE 20 and how to empty it

[Simon Bright]

I recently bought Svala a 2014 BRE 20 ft. I filled the ballast tanks but found that opening all three of the exits to the ballast tank ( two small on either side and one bigger central one) into the "bilge" I could still not get rid of all the water in the ballast. I have read historical discussion on this topic in the forum and gleaned this useful information:

1. The lowest point in water ballast tanks is lower than the exits ( excuse my lack of technical language) and this is why the water won't flow out fully even when the boat is moving forward.
2. The amount of water actually remaining in the ballast tank is so little that it does not matter or effect the balance of the boat as it slopes about after tacking ( for example).
3. It could be possible to at a Y valve to the powerful whale pump that is fixed to the starboard side of the outboard motor brace/mounting and then add a pipe to draw the water from the hatch cover over the ballast tank. This pipe would need i suppose to be added and removed as required to prevent it obstructing the cockpit floor. Not quite sure how to make adding or detaching it practical.
4.Have an entirely separate hand pump to put directly into the ballast tank to expel the water. In which case can people recommend a pump available in UK or give some specs for a pump that will do the job ?

Could people comment please on your experience and recommendations.
Is the water ballast tank one tank or two ? Looks like it must be one.

Simon Bright

[Graham W]

Simon,

Something like this will do the job through the ballast tank main hatch and can also be used for bailing out a locker if you're unfortunate enough to flood one https://www.force4.co.uk/item/Whale/Easybailer-Pump-With-1m-Hose/TAA.

The best way to remove remnant puddles of water in any of your tanks is with a large sponge.  Soak up, wring out over the side, repeat.

As you say, you won't be able to completely empty your ballast tank underway but whatever's left is an insignificant amount, to be dealt with back at base.

[Simon Bright]

Thanks Graham. Very useful. I have ordered one.

Simon

[MarkDarley]

Simon,
I fitted one of these. It only requires one hand to pump whereas the tall skinny pumps require two hands, which is hard when single handed sailing.

https://www.go2marine.com/gusher-standard-titan-bilge-pump-bp4402?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9_ShoPqJ-AIVDfrICh202Qq0EAQYASABEgKBcfD_BwE

[MarkDarley]

https://www.force4.co.uk/item/Whale/Gusher-Titan-Bulkhead-Pump/G46

[Graham W]

I should have said that an outboard transom-mounted Whale pump, like the one recommended by Mark, is pretty much essential.  The cheap stick-like pump, with a sponge, is just to get rid of small amounts of water left in the ballast tank and whatever sometimes gets past the inspection hatch seals and into the buoyancy tanks, especially the aft ones.  A plastic hand bailer on a string is also useful, although mostly as a handy pissoir rather than for bailing purposes.

[garethrow]

Picking up on this thread I have a related query.
After an enjoyable and exceedingly hot Seafair event, I have finally been persuaded by my long suffering crew that we need a more effective way of emptying the bulk of water out of our BR20 ballast tank rather than waiting 20  mins or more for the bailers to do their work whilst motoring around in circles. Having resisted electrical equipment on board unless in the form of self-contained battery devices (torch / hand held gps etc) I recognise I have to bite the bullet and go for a submersible pump linked to a modest battery.
Whilst there have bene versions of submersible pumps within built rechargeable batteries available, they appear to have a lousy reputation and I know Escape and little joy with these. So, I believe most owners go for the remote battery type. Not being at all 'techy' in electrical matters I have started trawling the internet for the best solution and am not making much progress when there seem to be so many possibilities and wide range of prices and not a great deal of specification information. My key criteria are:
1.   Reliability
2.   Ease of connection to remote battery with at least a showerproof connection
3.   A pump that does not mind sucking on air and does not shut off when it does
4.   A pump that has an intake as close to hull as possible rather than being significantly raised up by a 'cage'
5.   A decent length flexible output hose to reach to the outboard well
6.   It would be handy to be able to recharge battery with a standard car battery charger rather than having to invest in another piece of kit.
7.   Needs to fit into the tank through the access hatch easily!
Has anyone found something that meets these sort of requirements? What sort of battery and connections do I need to look for?
Regards
Gareth Rowlands,   BR20 Halen Y Mor

[Graham W]

Gareth,

The standard place for a 12V battery on a BR20 is in a wooden bracket just ahead of the centreboard case. Presumably on a BRe it should be somewhere dry inside the cabin. If you're only going to use the battery to run the ballast pump and not a fishfinder/GPS, then a standard 12V burglar alarm battery should be sufficient.  One of these smaller ones https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battery-Yuasa-NP7-12-Lead-Acid-Ah/dp/B009D0KFOO/ref=asc_df_B009D0KFOO/ - but shop around.  I don't know about car-type chargers - the usual sort of charger for this small lead battery is something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/CTEK-Automatic-Maintainer-maintainence-motorcycle/dp/B004RADNCQ/ref=asc_df_B004RADNCQ/.

I'd recommend a Seaflo or Rule 12V submersible pump like this one https://www.boatfittings.co.uk/p/12v_bilge_pump_1100_gallons_per_hour_submersible_.  It's a mistake to go for the slightly cheaper lower capacity ones. 

Pop the pump through the aft ballast tank hatch, connect it to the battery and it should clear most of the tank in less than five minutes.  You may need to hold the pump down against the bottom of the tank to extract the last few remnants of ballast water.  If I've got the maths right, the NP7-12 battery should allow the pump to empty the tank around fifteen times before it needs recharging.

If you're not going to rely on the pump's crocodile clips, you'll also need a reasonably water-resistant connector for the battery, a 5A inline fuse and a long enough length of 29mm id flexible hose (connected to the pump outlet with a 90° elbow) to pump the water up through the hatch, over the outboard transom and into the outboard well.  Likely all-in cost with fittings will be above £100 if you also need the charger.

As I often sail solo, I think that it's safer to do the ballast emptying once I've finished for the day and am tidying up.

[Graham W]

For those of us with eProp Spirit outboards, it appears that the long-promised plug-in 12V DC/DC converter may finally become available later this year.  This would allow us to run a bilge pump, inflate a dinghy etc without needing a separate battery.

[Sea Simon]

For those of us with eProp Spirit outboards, it appears that the long-promised plug-in 12V DC/DC converter may finally become available later this year.  This would allow us to run a bilge pump, inflate a dinghy etc without needing a separate battery.

Hmmmm, isn't range anxiety a big thing? And a spare eprop battery £900?
As a confirmed e outboard cynic (for now...) That sounds about as useful as the ability to power my house/garage off my £80k electric car, assuming people who have those cars are most unlikely to be "stealing" free electricity from the office? But come January, who's to say?

I got a new 3 phase E supply run in to my garage, for "only" £10k! And i get to keep my diesel 4x4...

I propose a new term "green maths" be added to the existing "man maths" which I've been successfully applying to the purchase of what my wife would call unneeded gadgets/tools/cars/boats for many years!   

[Matthew P]

Hi Gareth

Here's an update of a post I made some time ago:

All the hand pumps I've seen fitted by the yard are too small and hence slow.  In Gladys (BR20) I had a Whale Titan (big and simple!) that just about fitted alongside the outboard (check it will fit with your outboard) I would even consider having two, one each side of the boat. My pump was set up with a "Y" valve so that I could switch between pumping out the ballast tank and draining the cockpit sump. Some boats are fitted with drain plugs between the water ballast tank and the cockpit sump.  In this case, make sure the drain plug(s) to the sump- are as big as practical 25mm or more.  An electric pump is a handy option and need not be permanently fitted.

Draining the ballast tank can quick and fun without pumping when recovering the boat onto the trailer, if you are confident the hull is strong enough (GRP not wood), well supported by rollers and the trailer is strong enough to support the boat with water ballast in. Open all the ballast tank round hatches, including the two small ones forward ones (to let air in as water exits) and the cover between the cockpit sump and the outboard well.  Most of the water whooshes out of the stern as the bow is raised onto the trailer.  Satisfying and quick!  The remaining water can piddle out of the ballast drain plug and reversed self bailer.  You have got a reversed self bailer for filling haven't you?

Matthew
BR17 Epoxy-ply Tarika
Ex-BR20 GRP Gladys 

[Graham W]

Hmmmm, isn't range anxiety a big thing?

As an existing owner of an eProp, its exhorbitant price is a sunk cost, which is unfortunate terminology in this context.  Therefore (and in my opinion) it is totally immune from any constructive criticism of the maths involved.

Someone probably needs to check my green maths, but I calculate that using the eProp battery through a DC/DC converter to run a bilge pump emptying the ballast tank would reduce the outboard's range by 0.25%.  And inflating a dinghy electrically would cost about 3%.  Not the sort of current draw to worry about and easily replaced by the solar panels over a sunny lunch.

[Graham W]

All the hand pumps I've seen fitted by the yard are too small and hence slow. 

+1

[garethrow]

Many thanks everyone
Yes - I can remember your recovery draining technique Matthew - which works well IF you are recovering. Howerer, during an event (like Seafair or Mylor) I would hope not to be recovering daily - hence my reluctant decision (driven by crew) to go for an electric pump. I shall follow your recommendations Graham amd look forward to a quietefficient way of tank emptying underway or moored.

Regards

Gareth Rowlands
BR20 Ha;en Y mor

[Nicky R]

We got an electric pump for our BRE after the first raid we did at Mylor. We'd spent 20 minutes pumping out by hand, whilst Helen and Chris turned on their electric pump and relaxed in the cockpit. We never regretted spending the money on it, although we often used Matthew's technique of emptying as we recovered her onto the trailer. I don't think you'll regret or, or use the hand pumping option again!

We stored the battery in the starboard locker. It powered the pump, echo sounder/log and the radio.